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LC&DR

Signature: Green trains are best!

Bio: Railway modeller since 1952 (started with Hornby O gauge Clockwork), progressed to Tri-ang OO/HO in 1956 and still model in OO and O. Dabble a bit in 304mm to 1 foot, HO, TT, and OO9. Joined BR in 1964, retired from Network Rail 2006 and then did 6 years on NYMR. Still actively involved in Institution of Railway Operators and occasionally volunteer at the NRM.

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LC&DR

9122 posts

 Do they still hand out 'Lines' as a punishment?

 

A fairly soul destroying practice, once you have written out "I must not talk in class" 100 times you start to lose the will to live.

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 I haven't had one of these, but is it possible to re-assemble the motor and sub-frame with wheels assembly  the wrong way round inside the side frame moulding? That would bring the pick ups in the motor bogie into conflict with the trailing bogie.

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 BB,  the comment was a  'bit of old irony ' Laughing

 

With both my ex-son in law and my daughter in law who were Social Workers working with children  I never saw eye to eye with them about discipline, and my grandchildren who behave the best and do best in school are not their offspring. Read into that what you will.

 

Personally it hasn't left me with any mental scars, although I did hate Grammar School intensely and dropped out  in the 5th year, got a job on the railway from which I have never looked back, finishing up retiring 40 years later as a senior manager. I loved my Junior school though.

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 That is a very good question, for which I am afraid I do not have an answer based on knowledge. However the Drewry 204hp diesels that worked on the  Wisbech and Upwell Tramway after the Y6 / J70s were withdrawn had a cab at one end only so unless there was a turntable at either end would be non-compliant in one of the directions if it were a general rule. Pictures of these in action show them running bonnet leading so I guess there was not such a rule. (Or maybe BR ignored it !?)

 

I suspect that the Act of Parliament or Light Railway Order authorising the tramway will state whether there are any conditions such as these.

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 At home, with me, it tended to be my Mum who dished out the discipline, my Dad might grumble at me but mum would 'clip us round the (r)ear' if she was cross with us. Dad would spend all his time in the garden when he wasn't at work, he used to work on neighbour's gardens too and rarely came into the house except for meals or to go to bed or if it was raining too heavily. He would get in from his job at Covent Garden Market at about half past twelve, have his dinner (known as lunch in other households), then light his pipe and with the cat on his lap fall asleep until two p.m., then he would wake and go out into the garden until it was dark.

 

At weekends  (well Sundays, because he worked Saturdays) he might take me and my brother to watch trains. But he tended to leave punishment to Mum, who was considerably younger.

 

We didn't get a TV until I was 12 and then only so Dad could watch racing  on Saturday afternoons, after work. We (my brother and I and friends)  would play outside until teatime, and the only time my Dad would hand out punishment was if we caused damage to his plants.  This didn't happen too often but one of our games involved building armies with Britain's soldiers on the lawn and then throwing clods of earth at the opposition until they all fell over. Larger clods might remove more of the enemy but also risked damage to the plants in the border. If that happened retribution was swift and loud .

 

I remember well the comics of my childhood (especially Beano & Dandy) which featured corporal punishment extensively.  Dad with his slipper for Dennis the Menace and Roger the Dodger, and Chalky who pursued the Bash Street Kids with his cane.  It was regarded in those days as inevitable!

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

Reading the earlier post which mentioned caning in schools, I guess  the number of people who know about corporal punishment in school let alone experienced it is growing smaller by the years. Recently it has been suggested that it should be made illegal for parents to smack their children and I do not intend to get into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of this, but simply to recount some of my childhood experiences.

 

In my junior school only the headmistress was allowed to cane children, and then only for the most severe misdemeanors, the headmistress was a large nun, who wore a black habit with a white whimple, with a large silver crucifix in her belt  and was a fearsome lady of Irish descent.  I am pleased to say I never experienced this punishment myself and managed to move up to Grammar School before I gained first hand experience of corporal punishment. However I did once or twice see boys, and girls, slapped on the legs by the playtime supervising teacher, usually for fighting in the playground.

 

I was told by one of my classmates at Grammar school who had gone to another junior school run by the same order of nuns, but in Erith and not my one which was in Crayford, that one of the nuns there used a chair leg  to bash kids with. I remain sceptical.

 

However at Grammar School nearly all the teachers kept a cane nearby and would use it. In one occasion I got 6 (3 on each hand) from the English master simply for spelling 'Saturday' incorrectly.  Other forms of punishment were used too. A plymsol slipper across the back side was a favourite  'weapon of choice' used by a couple of the teachers, and the Latin master used to keep just the rubber sole of one folded up in his back pocket for swift retribution.  This he referred to as a "Winter Warmer". Other physical punishments included "lollies" which involved the master grabbing the cheek of a boy between his thumb and forefinger and gripping hard shaking it back and forth.  A "Double lollie"  involved both cheeks simultaneously. Hauling a boy by the ear lobe was common practice, (you have no doubt seen Arkwright doing this to Granville in 'Open All Hours'.)

 

The blackboard rubber and sticks of chalk became missiles aimed at the back of the head of boys that were talking in class. The Latin master was a dead shot with these.

 

All in all it was a dangerous time as a schoolboy in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

 

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 Further notes regarding prefix letters. From 1948 until 1967 there was a North East Region  and carriages allocated to it carried NE prefixes. Also for a short while in the 1960s carriages used by the Eastern Region from Liverpool Street to East Anglia carried GE prefix letters.

 

Suffix letters were also applied to carriages aquired by BR from the 'Big 4' . The system was slightly different to the prefixes in that - E indicated former LNER, M indicated former LMSR, S indicated former SR and W indicated former GWR. 

 

Typical examples of carriages with both prefix and suffix included  M9067M a Period 3 Stanier vestibule open third, and S5636S a Maunsell high window composite.

 

If carriages were transferred from one region to another the prefix letter was changed but the suffix letter always remained the same. So some Bullied Open Second carriages were moved from the Southern to the Eastern and Scottish Regions in 1965 some examples included S1466S became SC1466S and S1469S became E1469S. Similarly some Maunsell High Window Second Brakes were transferred to the Western Region in 1963 when the lines west of Exeter were transferred from the Southern Region in 1963. Examples included S3777S which became W3777S and Maunsell Open Second S1326S became W1326S.

 

New BR built carriages were not given suffixes.

 

Because of this there were duplicated numbers between ex LNER, ex LMSR, ex SR, ex GWR and new BR carriages. Only the prefix and suffix distinguished them.

 

To illustrate this issue the following were in existence at more or less the same time -

 

W1016W  GWR  diagram C23 Churchward Clerestory Gangway Third

 

E1016E LNER diagram 329 Thompson Vestibule Third

 

S1016S - SR Maunsell  diagram 56A  'Continental' Corridor Third  (ex 2nd)

 

SC1016M - LMSR Fowler Period 1 diagram 1748 Corridor First

 

SC1016  BR Standard Mark 1 Second Restaurant

 

 

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 Before and during the early years of the blue and grey era, before the introduction of TOPS (TOtal oPerating System, the computerised control of rolling stock) carriage numbers were given a prefix letter to indicate which region the vehicle belonged to for operating purposes.

 

TOPS was introduced for goods wagons during the mid 1970s and for passenger carriages in the early 1980s. and some carriage numbers were changed in 1983 to avoid duplication between carriages and locomotives. At the same time the use of regional prefixes was discontinued, and these were gradually removed as vehicles were repainted.

 

Note that although they operated into Scotland and a few were allocated to Craigentiny depot in Edinburgh the 254 HSTs only carried E prefixes and not SC.

 

The regional prefixes were -

 

E - for Eastern Region

 

M - London Midland Region

 

S - Southern Region

 

Sc - Scottish  Region

 

W - Western Region

 

There were two distinct types of HST in use round about 1980 which were Class 253 which provided services on the Western Region from Paddington to South Wales and the West Country, and Class 254 which provided services in the Eastern Region from Kings Cross to the North East, and Scotland. At first the 253 sets consisted of 7 carriages with a power car at either end, and the 254 sets consisted of 8 carriages between two power cars.  Therefore 253 set carriages carried W prefixes to their numbers, and 254 sets had E.

 

Additional routes were added in the 1980s including a North East to South West service from Newcastle to Bristol via Birmingham, and Midland Main line services from Sheffield to St Pancras. The North East - South West services  used 7 carriage 253 sets, and the Midland Main line used 8 carriage 254 sets.  Some ECML 254 sets were increased to 9 carriages.  By this time all prefix letters were discontinued.

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 You really need to browse the websites of the big dealers, (Hattons, Rails, Cheltenham, The Signal Box, etc.) they often have a greater range because Hornby only advertise their latest ones and of course their own brands.

 

Remember that if you have a steam based layout AND you want to stay looking authentic you need to choose the types that co-existed with steam. If in the other hand you are none too bothered with authenticity the world is your mollusc.

 

Just a few notes in case you want to be authentic -

 

Main line diesels first appeared in the late 1940s,and early 1950s  and then only a handful of experimental ones. This was the 'blood and custard' period of carriage colours. There were only eight actual locomotives in use between 1947 and 1957, 10000 & 10001 LMS Co Co diesel electric 1600hp, 10201-10203 SR/BR 1Co Co1 diesel electric 1750/2000hp, 10100 1D1 BR/Fell diesel mechanical, 10800 BR/Brush Bo Bo diesel electric 800hp, and "Deltic" English Electric Co Co diesel electric 3300 hp. All except the blue "Deltic" were in boring black colours.

 

The Modernisation plan started in earnest in 1957/1958  with a Pilot Scheme consisting of a number of small classes to try and find out the best ones. Some were more successful than others. 

 

In this early 'Pilot Scheme' phase and into the days of steam most diesels were turned out in green livery. At the same time most carriages were in maroon livery.  The classes that were seen as successful eventually became the following under the TOPS system and got the Corporate blue livery.

 

20, 25, 26, 27, 31, 33, 35*, 37*, 40, 42/43 (Warship), 45, 46, 47*  52* and 55* (* technically the 35, 37,  47, 52 and 55 post dated the Pilot Scheme but were well established during the transition between steam and diesel)

 

In 1968 steam was abolished and diesels (and electrics) were in command.  Blue for locomotives and blue and grey for carriages became the dominent colour scheme.  This then remained the status quo until the 1980s when new Intercity, Network South East and Provincial stripy liveries started to appear. Many of the older 'Pilot Scheme' diesels gradually disappeared in this time.

 

Green trains are best!

LC&DR

9122 posts

 Both Markits and Ultrascale sell wheels, and will usually supply them with Lima compatable length axles if requested. Markits seem to be in a bit of difficulties at present the web site will not allow a catalogue to be viewed.

 

I still run wagons with Lima 'Pizza Cutter' wheels on my layout which uses Peco Code 100 track including points with little or no problem.

 

One alternative may be to file down the inside of the bogie side frames and drill out the bearing to the required depth with a 2mm drill, and fit Romford 'Top Hat' brass bearings, and then use Hornby or Bachmann replacement wheels which are fairly easy to obtain.

Green trains are best!

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