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RAF96

Signature: Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

Bio: RAF aircraft apprentice 1960-63, 96th Entry of Lord Trenchard's Brats, hence the handle and avatar. RAF fitter, then technician leaving as a Chief Technician multi-trade skilled in 1984 Engineer in the aircraft industry 1984-2009, mainly product support for various MoD aircraft, ending my days as Design Authority for RAF/MoD airfield arrestor gear in UK & overseas. Now retired. β-tester.

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RAF96

13362 posts


As stated you must find and isolate the power path between the LH brush and the wheels, which is either a screw linking the brush to the motor housing hence via the axles to the wheels on one side or the brush sprung contact bears upon a protruding lug on the motor housing, easily isolated by filing off or insulating with tape or plastic shim.

 

Only then can you consider connecting a decoder into circuit.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


OK - that is great theory, which I fully understand, but in practice this is what I have seen in recent testing.

 

The new HM6010 DC Point and Accessory Module (PAC) module is the R8247 Point and Accessory Decoder (PAD) of the DC world, except it has themsame number of capacitors but they are half the value of the DCC module and we know the R8247 is no muscle mechanic when it comes to throwing solenoids, especially in pairs.

 

The basic HM6010 module design is almost the same as the R8247 apart from the HM6010 having blue tooth connectivity to the operating app rather than being hard wired to a controller and it also has a high amp output on one port to be able to drive a turntable motor.

 

The PAC unusually has two alternative modes of power - 15vDC i.e the same as Select and Elite or eLink or direct DCC track voltage as output by any of those DCC controllers. One would think the internal circuitry of the PAC would produce the same potential at the port outputs, but ...

 

... throwing points - on straight DC voltage the HM6010 is not that reliable, especially throwing paired solenoids, but power it from a DCC track voltage and there is a noticeable increase in throw potential. You can actually hear the difference in click between the two powering arrangements on this module, which is factory set at the default 100mS pulse. Work goes on to try various pulse durations on the HM6010 as is currently possible to set on the R8247 via CVs.

 

Given that the CDU output of these modules is governed by the capacitor value and quantity then one would expect the R8247 PAD to out perform the HM6010 PAC by a wide margin.

 

Now if we look at the new basic DC controller R7227, which has the same value capacitors as the PAC but only two rather than four, yet it will reliably throw a pair of solenoids on a standard 15vDC power input.

 

Open to further discussion.

 

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


Usually you can see which side of the lug has the barb so you know which way to prise to release it. There may be one at each corner and a couple more amidships.

Some coaches have a lug on the chassis at each end engaging in a slot in the body.

Some older coaches the roof pries off and there are screws to relese the body from the chassis.

It is usually a case of gently pry and see where there is resistance to parting and look for lugs or screws in that area.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


A normal in use light on the controller would suggest there is no short present so likely the motor is duff and requires deeper investigation with a multimeter across the commutator segments to see if there is broken winding. I would also do the rough magnet strength check by seeing if a screwdriver blade is strongly or poorly attracted to the motor. If poor then frame type motors can be remagnetised, not so easy for can motors.

 

The most basic continuoty check is does the motor react to power being applied to the centre (+) pickup and either side  (-) main wheel.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


I make no judgement - but in the Search box above I typed Era 1 and got hits for models that had Era ‘X’ in their product page description.

 

Not exactly a precise filter but at least filtering on Era if not the exact Era requested.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


Presuming by steam you mean it is fitted with a smoke unit.

 

This is essentially a bare wire element heated by the track current but cooled by smoke oil which boils off with the heat and makes ‘smoke’.

 

Once the oil has gone the element can overheat and burn out, so in simple terms when the smoke stops then you should not use it on track until the oil is topped up again.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


@Vespa

Instant !!!!!!!

 

And always will be.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


As the Yanks say Colin there ain’t no substitute for horsepower.

Unfortunately you have a two edged sword .... Lo-power motors take less oomph to drive them, but then they don’t have the kick to do the job. Motors powerful enough to do the job reliably take a lot of driving and can be brutal to your points mechanisms if not correctly installed.

Someone must be able to engineer a decent quality, compact, reliable and cheap point motor that is dead simple to install (clip on?) and simply works as advertised. Some of the motor drive units are huge and/or cost a fortune. The price of a simple solenoid can be disproportionate to the ancient engineering principle and parts. Add to that the cost of necessary switching if DC or an interface decoder if DCC.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


To add to Chris’s explanation you can see on your layout you have two centres of radius due to your outer curve being offset more to this end of the board.

 

You can also see at the outer left hand side you have an odd mix of curves, possibly a bit of flexi track has been used.

 

If you measure between the parallel tracks and half it then you have your radius, or if you can lift the track the R number is stamped on the bottom of each piece.

 

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

RAF96

13362 posts


@Vespa

I suspect that my photo has been locked in a backlog somwhere but great to now see it.

 

Please post another one Vespa to see how long it takes to clear ‘Customs’.

Halton Brat - Running Win 10, 64-bit - RM (Pro-Pack) with Elite as Controller-A, Select as Walkabout and E-Link as Controller-B - Locos are mostly TTS. http://www.halton96th.org.uk/robs_rails.html

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