Pendolino lights not working

[gorny]

Hi guys i recentIy bought 2 decoders and installed them into the virgin pendolino. However the locos run fine but the lights won't work in either the power car or other power car. ( im running two power cars ) i've tried function 0 but still nothing. I've tried switching the decoders around in each car but still nothing. Any ideas. Thank you Alan

[Chrissaf]

You haven't confirmed the brand / model of the decoders, but assuming Hornby R8249.

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Some report that the R8249 decoder does not require 128 speed steps to be enabled in CV29 for directional lights to work, but for many decoders the 128 speed steps (Bit 1) in CV29 does need to be enabled for functional directional lighting. You also have to switch the lights 'ON' by sending a F0 command from the controller (which you say you have done).

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CV29 Online calculator.

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Another thing to be aware off. With the 8 pin NEM652 decoder socket. It is possible to plug the decoder in the wrong way round. When reversed, the loco motor still runs absolutely fine, but the directional lights don't work.

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So two things to check. The value of CV29 just to check that Bit 1 128 speed steps is enabled (see on-line CV29 calculator link above) and that the Orange wire on the decoder goes to Pin 1 of the socket.

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If unsure of what is Pin 1, then reverse the decoder plug anyway, and test lights again. If they still don't work and CV29 is correct, then re-instate the original decoder plug orientation and look elsewhere.

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PS - You also haven't said what controller you are using. But I see from looking at your posting history, that you have an Elite. The Elite can read and write CV29, but reading needs to be on the Elite 'Programming' track.

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[Fishmanoz]

Gorny, I think you should thank Chris for his infinite patience in giving you this comprehensive answer as everything he has told you is included in the thread FGW HST (DCC fitted) - no lights, and that thread is now only one day old.

 

Then I think I know where Chris is going, he has saved that answer so he can give it to the next person asking this very common question.

[Chrissaf]

Actually Fishy, I pasted it from the post you mentioned. I did consider just posting a link to that other thread. But decided that copy and paste would be just as quick and give a more personal service.

[gorny]

Hi guys. Still no luck. I use laisdcc decoders in both pendolino cars ( both motor trailers as I'm running a 2 power car set ) when I run the locos separate the lights work but when I run them in a double header consist the locos run fine but no lights. I have to say that in the back loco the decoders the opposite way round as it's the only way I can get the power cars run correctly in the one direction. Any tips on how to get two power cars to run correctly with both decoders in the one direction. Also I have used laisdcc decoders in quite a few of my locos with absolutely no problems at all. Thanks Chris for your post. Much appreciated. Alan

[Chrissaf]

When you say that you are running a 2 power car set up. I assume that you mean that BOTH ends of the train have power cars WITH electric motors installed in a 'push me - pull you' mode of operation and that the rear power car is NOT a dummy.

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I have to say that in the back loco the decoders the opposite way round.

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Maybe that is affecting the lighting wiring circuits. You should be able to have the decoder the right way round in the socket and compensate for that by adding 1 to your current value of CV29 in that particular decoder. So for example if the current value of CV29 is 6, make it 7.....if it is 2, make it 3 etc. Adding 1 to CV29 is the same as reversing the wires on the loco motor.

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Remember that only the power car with the decoder you want to write to should be on the 'programming' track, not both power cars together. Else you risk over-writing CV29 of the front power car decoder that you want to leave untouched.

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More often than not with a single power car and a dummy rear power car. The dummy car decoder is first configured in the front power car (as most decoders need to see a motor load when reading / writing CVs) then transferred to the dummy power car after it has been configured.

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You also said:

but when I run them in a double header consist the locos run fine but no lights.

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That infers that you have given the two decoders individual unique DCC addresses. Have you tried giving BOTH decoders the SAME address. I would have expected that to be the normal way of configuring a dual power car set up. You say that running the loco's individually, the lighting works. But doesn't when it is a consist. Maybe it is because you are running as a consist on different addresses that is causing the lighting issue. Unfortunately, I have no personal experience of running 'consists' to draw upon.

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So in conclusion, it might be a combination of things causing your lighting issue. The rear decoder the wrong way round and the quirks of running two power cars in a consist. I think it would be worth trying both cars on the same address, putting the rear decoder the right way round and amending the rear decoder CV29 to compensate.

[96RAF]

If you run two locos as a double header in Railmaster you can control their functions seperately. In this case (as described by you) your seperately addressed power cars are just another two loco double header, not a fixed double power car train with the same address.

 

If you are double heading from the Elite direct then it may be that your laisdcc decoders do not support the sort of consisting that gives seperate function control, only basic consisting, not advanced. 

 

There has been forum discussion of the various types of consist a while back, may be worth a search As well as trying to find out what types of consist your decoders support and if you have to make changes to CV19.

 

Rob

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Alan 

first of all try what Chris and Rob has said also have you downloaded the Laisdcc manual and CV list from the link on the website that you have purchased your decoders from or on the Laisdcc website as they’re very informative about how to program the decoders as well as the CV list and as Chris and Rob have said don’t run them as a consist try and run them as the same loco number I too have these decoders however I haven’t tried to use them in a consist yet 

Hedley

[Chrissaf]

Something else to consider:

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I am assuming that the power car at the rear, was originally designed to be at the front of the train and you are using two FRONT power cars with one of them unusually at the rear in 'push mode'. Thus, the lighting wiring in the rear power car will be wired for the front of train location.

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So let's assume that you get it working such that both power car lights work when the train is under DCC control, whether that be a consist or the same address. Let's also assume that the decoder in the rear power car is turned the right way round and compensated for by amending Bit 1 in CV29.

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Now what I would logically expect to happen, is that when the train is going forward, the rear power car will be going backward (due to the CV29 mod), but the rear power car will be receiving 'move forward' DCC commands. This would mean from a directional lighting point of view that the going forward lights will be on (White? or the same lights as the front power car). But you would want the rear power car lighting to be reversed, so that the rear power car showed the tail lights (Red?) even though the power car is receiving 'move forward' DCC commands.

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It is likely that you won't be able to do this through CV commands (unless specifically supported on the laisdcc decoder). What you may have to do to correct this, is reverse the white and yellow wires on the 8 pin NEM652 socket in the rear power car. This will reverse what power car directional lighting comes on when receiving 'move forward' and 'move backward' DCC commands.

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Image courtesy of Brian lambert's web site

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[96RAF]

I explain this backwards going forwards wiring consideration in the Blue Rapier lights article on my signature linked website, if you are interested.

Rob

[gorny]

Ok guys mega thanks for the replies...ill have a wee look tonight Alan 

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Alan 

follow what Chris and Rob have said and get some heat shrink tubing or heat resistant tape but the heat shrink tubing is a better idea and cut the 2 wires about 1/2 way between the plug and decoder and swap them 2 over like what Chris said and join the wires again and slide the heat shrink down over the joint and use a hair dryer for to shrink the tube over the joint as it would be a lot easier and probably a lot quicker doing it that way 

Hedley

[Chrissaf]

Granted, your suggestion is easier, but I was suggesting swapping the wires on the socket so that the decoder remains perfectly standard and can be replaced without having to do the mod again. Gorny can still use your technique, but on the wires going to the socket rather than the wires on the decoder, if getting to the socket terminations is too difficult. The actual colour of the wires on the socket may not be yellow and white, which is why I included the socket diagram so that the socket pin locations could be referenced.

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Chris 

it just goes to show that I’m still learning about dcc and I had only thought about the quick fix and I hadn’t thought about changing the wires on the socket which of course as you have said is the best option when for to change the loco back to dc as the motor wires stay the same when you put the blanking plug back in 

Hedley

[gorny]

Hi guys sorry I haven't been in touch..I've really hurt my back in work and I'm laid up in bed at the moment. Can hardly walk never mind climb up my loft. I'm so frustrated because I dying to try the options out. Thank you all for you comments and tips and hopefully I can get back up to my trains real soon. 

[Chrissaf]

Get well soon.....

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Alan 

I’m very sorry to hear about your problems and I hope that you get better soon as I know what’s it like to have back problems at least I don’t have to go into the loft for my layout.

anyway please let all of us know how you get on with our suggestions when you get up and about and back to your layout 

Hedley

[gorny]

Thanks guys 

[gorny]

Hi guys.. I crawled up to the loft today and tried the cv29 by adding 1 diget with the decider the correct way around. . It was at 34 so I changed it to 35. Still no joy ...I then tried programming both to the same address but both power cars ran in the opposite direction. So I have reverted back to using the consist but with no lights. I have downloaded the laisdcc CV list to see if the lights are on a different function button than the usual 0. I'll keep you posted. I appreciate the replies but just don't fancy cutting up wires. I'll keep at it. Thanks guys 

[Fishmanoz]

Gorny, you need the front car decoder on 34 and the rear on 35.

[gorny]

Fishmanoz this is what I tried. The front car was set to cv29 34 and I changed the rear car decoder to CV 29 to 35. Both are the same address so I programmed them separately using the different cvs. Both were put on the track and they ran in the opposite direction. So I tried changing the direction on one of the cars which when I changed it wouldn't move at all. 

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Allan

how did you change the direction of one of your locos did you do this in CV29 ? as I can’t understand why when you have changed the CV’s that one loco wouldn’t move at all especially when they have been working otherwise beforehand so hopefully Fishy or Chris can come up with the answer for the reason why that happened as I haven’t come across this happening before and as you have said that you usually use a consist for to get them running together but you should be able for to get the same results changing the CV’s and have them both with the same address as I have a 6 Car Pullman and they’re both the same address and the lights work properly in both directions and I think that it was done by changing different CV’s ( the reason that I don’t know how this was done and which CV’s were changed was that when I had purchased the set the shop had installed and programmed the decoders ) also I cannot understand why you have had problems with getting them to run properly with the same address and the lights working in both directions 

Hedley

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Chris, Rob and Fishy 

is it possible that the power cars in the set one is the front car and the other one is the rear car as my Pullman has that configuration and would the wiring for the decoder socket be wired up for having both in the push me pull me cars so that you would still put the plug into the socket with the orange wire to number one and for the lighting circuit to work correctly in both directions and the CV’s adjusted for the set up for It working properly 

as I still get a bit confused with the programming of CV’s and which ones to change for the different results as I rely on the elink and RM for to help me with changing all of the settings,

also the CV’s for the laisdcc decoders are similar to the Gaugemaster dcc26 decoder 

Hedley

[96RAF]

Hedley

When I wired sockets into my Class 395 (see article on the web site linked to in my signature) I had to fudge the wiring in the back end car as if you look at it logically the rear car (motorised or not) is travelling in reverse to the front end car. This applies even when you change direction, the trailing car is effectively always running in reverse to the leading car.

 

To get the wiring right I had to swap the yellow and white wires over at the socket in the trailing car.

 

In the case in wuestion in this thread the OP has two power cars so the wiring will be set as if both are going pointy bit forwards. The running logic can be changed in CV29 but my convention is to wire both cars to work as they sit in train, then all CV settings can ne the same for the whole rig.

 

Rob

 

[gorny]

Good morning guys.looks like my only option if I want the directional lights going is to rewire as someone said. Otherwise I'm using the wrong CV and it's not cv29. As hedley said both power cars just want to go in their normal direction no matter what I do. When I changed the cv29 and they both went in the opposite direction I took the front power car off the track and changed the direction using the operate feature on the hornby elite thinking if I reversed it I could get it going that way. I reversed it and and the rear power car just jolted as if the decoder had read it. However when i applied power to the rear power car the elite speed dial moved and the speed light moved up the power car just didn't move. So I just put it back in a consist and they both worked fine but with no lights. Maybe the CV for the lighting is different in a consist for these decoders. Failing that I might just revert to using a dummy car on the rear as hornby intended although the power car struggles as I run a 8 car train on my layout. Many thanks for all the answers I'll keep at it. Thanks again Alan