How to use the space...

[3chris333]

Hello, I am new to the hobby (although not modelling, having dabbled in Warhammer etc in my younger days). I have finally decided to start building the model railway of my childhood dreams  😆 and am sure to frequent the forum for help and inspiration as I go...

Originally I was going to have a small 6x5 temporary layout, however I have managed to identify a space in the loft that is far better, and bigger for a permanent raised layout  - being closer to 11ft by 6ft. The issue I have is that about 2.5ft each side sits within the eaves of the roof, meaning there would be uprights in the middle of the scenery.

One method I thought of was to have the sections in the eaves hidden by boards, so that the track within this area is not visible, therefore having the main modelling layout enclosed with 3 boards, with just corners behind the boards

I wondered how other people would tackle (or have tackled the issue) of eaves getting in the way?

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[walkingthedog]

When I had a loft layout there was a piece 4x4" sticking up in the middle, didn’t even notice it once the layout was built. It sort of just disappeared.

[Bulleidboy]

You seem to have some good space in your loft - better than the more modern houses with inverted "W" framing. I do not have a loft layout, but have watched many on Youtube that are loft layouts, and brilliant layouts. The most important thing is that you can reach the back of your layout and also whatever you have stored underneath. Again, having watched YouTube, it is up to you as to how much boarding-in you do with perhaps insulation sheets - don't forget the biggest problem with loft layouts is that they can be freezing in the winter and far to hot in the summer (especially one like this year). The most important thing is advanced planning. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[LCDR]

 As BB says you may need to consider some form of insulation under the roof to allow you to use your layout 365. The heat from the house will help to keep the layout in good condition if it dosn't then disappear out through the roof tiles.

 

The space looks fine, and I presume the floor is adequate to support constant walking in it. 

 

I insulated under my roof and re-inforced the attic floor with the intention of building a layout but I found after a half hearted start the shape and final size (about 9' x 9') just wasn't right  for my ambitions and went for an 16' x 8' shed in the garden instead. The attic is now the spare rolling stock storage area (and is nearly full!)

 

Some advice - make sure you can easily reach all the track for cleaning and rescuing failed or derailed trains. If you do board some of it in make sure you can reach inside. Or make the panelling easily removable. If your water cistern is in the attic you will need to gain access (or a plumber will) so think about how you get to it without having to dismantle the railway.

 

 

Last but not least going up and down the loft ladder is fine when you are young and fit, but gets harder as you get older and arthrhitis gets a hold of you!

[Bulleidboy]

I forgot to say, make your loft hatch bigger. A very simple job - most hatches are made by placing a couple of lengths of joist between the joists running front to back that the upstairs ceilings are attached to. Remove one of those already making your exisiting hatch and move it, giving you the size you want and replace it andthen  cut away the ceiling board betqween the joists, abit of trim attached to the ceiling around the hole and a length of piano hinge and a sheet of ply/mdf cut to size and a catch and your done. A colleague has a hinged door that folds over the hole in the loft - making a floor, so that he cannot accidently step backwards down the hole!. Although no railway up there, I made my hatch about 4'x2' and it took me about any hour - trouble is "everything" now goes up there. BB

[Rog RJ]

Adding to what has already been said, it can take a lot of work and money to make a loft into a comfortable place for a model railway.  They can get very cold in the winter and roasting hot in the summer. They can also be very dusty, draughty and damp. Access via loft ladder is OK when you're younger but as you get older it can become difficult.

[96RAF]

My previous bungalow loft space was 33’ x 33’ with ‘W‘ format joinery similar to that pictured above, that I modified (after consultation and some big sums) with an extension over the old garage, now 4th bedroom, that used modern rafting timbers and hence virtually unusable for anything but roofing.

 

In essence I replaced some angled struts with a vertical support and introduced stressed ‘I‘ beams upon the existing joists To provide adequate floor loading. This was to be followed up with a staircase but I moved before that happened thus the loft ladder remained as the prime access.

 

The new water tank was in an ideal location but the numpty plumber had installed point to point pipework acros the best use space so this was replumbed arround the ‘train’ area.

 

The rest was plaster boarded out, lit with suitable lighting and redecorated to suit.

Then I moved.

 

Rob

[2e0dtoeric]

Don't rely on a trailing extension lead from a bedroom or landing socket. You are certain to either trip over it, saw through it, or have the domestic goddess unplug it, just when you are in the middle of something.

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As said above, temperature can fluctuate wildly, from freezing to roasting.

Lofts can be VERY dirty places. Don't board things in, because you can be sure that is where something will derail - and how do you intend to clean the track?

As you will have the operating position in the middle, do not have any boards wider than 2 ft/60 cm, because you cannot reach over them without damaging anything at the front.

Access - for other people - is vital, you might become disabled by something, and how do you intend rescuers to get in?

Install a smoke alarm.

Have a Master OFF switch OUTSIDE the loft, so you can be sure EVERYTHING is off, should you go out, or someone needs safe access (for when you have drilled through the 13 amp power line or the water pipe!)

Keep a good First Aid kit up there, so when you cut yourself, you don't leave a trail of blood through the house, to the kitchen or wherever!

Although not essential, an intercom system is handy, it saves the boss yelling up the stairs at you because the tea is brewed, or whatever!

An extension from the wired house phone is also convenient, if she's gone out. It saves you having to scramble out and down, to fnd it was someone selling double-glazing or PPI!

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Whjen I saw the thread title, I was going to reply that the space fits in between the words you have typed, so show where one stops, and the next one starts, but I thought that Gordon might not understand that!   😛

[Carltonf]

I'm no engineer, so I would seek advice from a builder because I wonder if those supports could be substituted with horizontal ties nearer the apex.  So you end up with an A frame, but the horizontal could be quite high up, giving more space for the layout, at the expense of a bit of head room between supports.

Also, I would insulate and board the underside of the roof for insulation and keeping the dust down.  I would even look to put a velux window in.  On hot days would allow a bit of fresh air, and it's nice to have some natural light in there.  Don't quote me on this, but I am fairly sure a velux window in a loft space does not need planning permission.

[3chris333]

Many thanks for all the replies, alot to be thinking about.

I'm quite lucky as whoever did the A-frame conversion and initial boarding out did an excllent job, the floor is sturdy and the loft is completely dust free - we have been storing stuff up there for 10 years and its all clean and dry.

Some of the ideas will have to wait a little while (until I have more funds) but some points suggested will be up there on the list - a cover to stop me falling doen the hatch and a loft ladder to replace the step ladder for sure - I will also look into the price of insullation - even if its initially just above the layout 

Regarding asthetics I will start by just seeing if the mind can trick me into not noticing the uprights 

I will take pictures as I go and keep people posted - I just can't wait to get building!

[96RAF]

The following may be of encouragement...

 

This gives some idea of the new verticals I installed at the main frames every four rafters (the next one is mounting the temp vertical striplight), these replacing an angled strut - remaining angled struts can just be seen to the right of the prominent vertical in the gap in the plasterboard. The short horizontals at the top (nomenclature ???) were simply added to with a longer lower one at a sensible height for headroom. These add to the rigidity of the basic barn shape.  This bolted hand built type of roof structure comprised extremely heavy timbers, and the wood was hard as iron to cut. Purlins (high level longitudinal just seen in the plasterboard gap to the right) and binders (floor level longitudinals) were very large cross section and the new ‘I‘ beam joists at every frame position were built to be flush with the tops of the binders.

 

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Apologies for the poor focus when expanded. At the far end is my old led mimic panel (3’ x 2’) linked to the points switches to show rights of way, etc by ethernet cables and sockets as seen in the foreground.

 

Velux windows were easily installed in the left hand roof, the right hand roof having the garage extension roof tagged on so no window space there. Overall modelling space was around 16’ square between the stub walls, with a similar space at the other end of the loft for general storage. Electrics were by way of a separate consumer unit. Loft access was dead centre out of shot.

 

Rob

[96RAF]

Ridge collar  - I knew it had a name Colin.

From memory I had 2 purlins (8” x 4”) per side and 4 binders (10” x 4”)  across the width. Rafters were notional 3” x 2” and joists were 4”x2” each doubled every 4 frames with the W struts bolted between with star washers.  The new hangers were likewise bolted twixt the double frames Before the struts were removed leaving a structure same shape as yours without the struts. The interior of the roof was sprayed with silly foam and highly effective it was too, leaving a ventilation gap for the plasterboard.

I have the original detail drawings I submitted somewhere lost in my files. Velux windows - the council man was happy just to see installation sketches for the reworked (trimmed) rafters and as they would be on the back of the house no planning permission was required. I just wish I had had time to get the pucka  stairs done as well.

Rob

[96RAF]

The extending ladder to my outside ‘loft’ is impressive. A full 3m ceiling height. I will take a picture next time I have to climb up there to check out the roof tanks, solar panels and antennae, stray cats, etc.

Rob