Few questions from a newcomer

[Decom]

I've done my best to research these but i have yet to have my questions answered so I thought here would be the best place. I used to have quite a substantial hornby train set about ten years ago and still have some left over (regretably in my teenage years I sold it) and thought i'd get back into it and i have enough track and Locos to just spruce it up by buying a single train set. I would like to use analog since my current equiptment is analog, this is where my questions come in.

 The only power clips/ track I have is power track at the moment, I can't tell if it's digital or analog. Common sense tells me that it is analog since I only bought analog train sets but my memory isn't too good. I heard using digital eqiptment on analog trains can be bad. However I'm not sure if that applys to power track. If it were digital would it potentially damage my ten year old analog Locos?

 My second question is, is the "Standard Model Train Controller (R8250) with mains power supply" analog or Digital? it will come in the train set I'm buying. While the train will be DCC ready, can I use ten year old analog Locos on that remote? 

[walkingthedog]

DCC Ready isn’t DCC. It means it has a socket for a DCC decoder. DCC locos can be run on DC layout, but DC locos mustn’t be run on a DCC layout. 

You need a DCC controller and locos fitted with decoders to run DCC Locos. But as I said, you can run DCC locos on DC, but sound, switchable lights etc. won’t work, they just become ordinary DC locos. 

Somebody will be along shortly to give you a much much longer reply.

[jane1707819582]

hi decom 

the difference between the two power clips is the dcc does not have a capacitor in it.

using analogue loco's on dcc is to be avoided ,the motors can burn out quickly.

the 8250 is an analogue controller

[atom3624]

I'll let the DCC guys answer your questions relating to the track - basically it should be fine, but DO NOT leave analogue locos on a live track.

 

Older track is probably steel, which whilst it helped the old magnadhesion, it rusts, and nobody likes it any more - all prefer nickel silver track produced today.

 

If you have an R8250 coming, it's great with a little 0-4-0 tank engine, like Percy for example, but little else - it will soon have a thermal shutdown. This is temporary, but will definitely happen with older locomotives, which will draw more current than the modern ones do.

 

There's probably an average of 2 threads per month solely related to the wheezy R8250 power supply / controller - I suggest you search these out - possibly easier via Google.

 

Hope that answers some of your questions.

 

BTW - A BIG WELCOME to the forum - it's generally very friendly, depending on where we are with snow and Brexit!!

 

Al.

[96RAF]

Have a read of Chris’s geeting started  guide posted as a sticky at the top of the General section of this forum. It will give you more than enough guidance.

Rob

[SRmike]

The standard model train controller is dc. The age of the set would suggest it is dc. Only use this with newer trains that are DCC ready not DCC fitted as you can damage the DCC chip and that will be expensive to sort.

what locos do you have?

if I was starting out again I would go DCC and scrap the train controller you have and buy a DCC system. The locos you have will need to be converted although if any are 0-4-0 then it will not be worth it.

[walkingthedog]

 

''Only use this with newer trains that are DCC ready not DCC fitted as you can damage the DCC chip and that will be expensive to sort."

 

SRmike the above statement is not true, you will not damage a DCC fitted loco on a DC layout. I have several and they run beautifully. 

[2e0dtoeric]

As WTD put, you CAN run a DCC fitted loco on a dc track, but the various sounds and functions won't work.

You can NOT put a dc loco on a DCC track, the motor will fry in seconds.

The 'standard' controller you mention is a feeble thing that will not run older loco's for very long, before it overheat and turns itself off until it cools down again.

The power clip/track - the dc one has a capacitor in it, put there to help reduce tv interference, which is not really relevent these days anyway! For a DCC track, this needs to be removed, as it interferes with the digital info sent by the controller, causing all sorts of weird things to happen.

Older loco's may not run very well on modern track. The wheels had larger flanges, which will cause problems on points and crossings, if you have any. Trucks and coaches are 'usually' fairly easy to re-wheel, it depends if they are 'through-the-hole' or pin-point axles,but loco's can be difficult, needing some knowledge, and setting up again. 'New' trains will run on older track.

As said - old track was usually steel (looks grey in colour, and magnets stick to it), but it can rust, and once it has rusted, you are wasting your time trying to 'rescue' it. Nickel-silver track won't rust, magnets won't stick, and it looks shiny.

-

Some people have TWO layouts, one with older track for the older trains, and another with modern track, for the newer items.

[Decom]

I'll let the DCC guys answer your questions relating to the track - basically it should be fine, but DO NOT leave analogue locos on a live track.

 

Older track is probably steel, which whilst it helped the old magnadhesion, it rusts, and nobody likes it any more - all prefer nickel silver track produced today.

 

If you have an R8250 coming, it's great with a little 0-4-0 tank engine, like Percy for example, but little else - it will soon have a thermal shutdown. This is temporary, but will definitely happen with older locomotives, which will draw more current than the modern ones do.

 

There's probably an average of 2 threads per month solely related to the wheezy R8250 power supply / controller - I suggest you search these out - possibly easier via Google.

 

Hope that answers some of your questions.

 

BTW - A BIG WELCOME to the forum - it's generally very friendly, depending on where we are with snow and Brexit!!

 

Al.

 Hi thanks for your reply! I have a few questions about what you said.

What do you mean by "do not leave analogue Locos on live track"? 

 Also my track is oldest 2005, probably got it a few years after (I bought all my stuff new), I thought that the nickel/silver track started being used in the 90s? I'm assuming then my track should be fine although I'm not expert so do correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

[walkingthedog]

Do not leave analogue locos on a DCC layout. There is power to the track at all times with DCC. This will fry the motor. It does not affect DCC loco for obvious reasons. They are fitted with decoders that need the continuous power supply to work. 

[atom3624]

What do you mean by "do not leave analogue Locos on live track"? 

Already had a couple of replies - DCC track is live at all times and 'AC'. Analogue locos are 12V DC maximum - not compatible - as stated by WTD 'it will fry the motor'!!

 Also my track is oldest 2005, probably got it a few years after (I bought all my stuff new), I thought that the nickel/silver track started being used in the 90s? I'm assuming then my track should be fine although I'm not expert so do correct me if I'm wrong. 

 One VERY simple way to test is with a magnet - if it sticks to it, it's steel, if it doesn't and has a slight 'yellow sheen' as some do, it's nickel / silver.

 

Nothing WRONG with steel track, just higher maintenance - need to clean more frequently - and remove any fine dust from entering bushes / bearings of the locos.

 

Al.

 

[Jimbo1707820979]

 

''Only use this with newer trains that are DCC ready not DCC fitted as you can damage the DCC chip and that will be expensive to sort."

 

SRmike the above statement is not true, you will not damage a DCC fitted loco on a DC layout. I have several and they run beautifully. 

Thanks for commenting on this, WTD. I had doubts about it as I have run DCC-fitted locos many times on Analogue without any apparent damage. Most DCC-fitted loco lights will also work on Analogue but cannot be controlled (unless by a switch underneath) of course, until the loco is back on a DCC track.

[Rog RJ]

 

''Only use this with newer trains that are DCC ready not DCC fitted as you can damage the DCC chip and that will be expensive to sort."

 

SRmike the above statement is not true, you will not damage a DCC fitted loco on a DC layout. I have several and they run beautifully. 

Thanks for commenting on this, WTD. I had doubts about it as I have run DCC-fitted locos many times on Analogue without any apparent damage. Most DCC-fitted loco lights will also work on Analogue but cannot be controlled (unless by a switch underneath) of course, until the loco is back on a DCC track.

 

And if it's a sound decoder you will normally get the basic sounds too, unless it's a TTS decoder.

[walkingthedog]

I have one sound steam loco, it is a USA loco. The light comes on, thebell rings, the whistle sounds and it makes all sorts of steam sounds but only the basic ones. There are dozens of sounds I can’t access and I can’t switch any sounds off, mores the pity. 

 

Just in case your wondering why I have it when I don’t like sound, it belonged to a friend who sadly died, I asked for something to remember him.

[2e0dtoeric]

WTD - American loco's use a different kind of decoder chip.

[Davinci]

Dear Members.

I've decided to extend my track.

I have difficulty in using the right standed hand point on the extension pack F.

As you see in the photo below this is my layout.

Can you circle on the photo if possible where do I put my power cables and both power track so I can use all track. I have two separate controllers.

yours faithfully ,

Paul.

[RB51]

@Paul,welcome, just for further info. posts containing images are held for moderation before getting released, or otherwise, to the forum. It is appreciated that you may not have realised this and therefore posted twice, the second one being now removed.

R-

[Chrissaf]

I suggest the following locations. I will explain why in a minute.

The green location for Controller 1 and the red location for Controller 2. As these are on a curve you will need to use R602 track power clips. These clips fit into specific locations on track pieces. To find these locations you need to look carefully along the side edge of the track and look for gaps between the underside of the rails and the top of the plastic sleeper webbing.

Why those locations?

Hornby points act as electrical switches to route power into the route that they are switched to. This only works correctly when power is fed into the 'TOE' [common] end of the point. If you run your finger along the track routes originating from the red & green squares in both clockwise & anti-clockwise directions, your fingers will arrive more so than not on a point 'TOE'. Note; that to reach ALL 'TOEs' it is necessary to set appropriate routes in intermediate points and not necessarily take the most direct route. Remember the track power flows through the path set by the point. This however, means that power distribution reliability is completely dependent upon the physical contact quality of the sides of the point moving and fixed rails, so ensure that these are spotlessly clean and shiny and that the point springs are in good order to ensure a robust firm snapping action.

When the cross-over points are set to route between loops, one of the controllers will need to be turned down [speed] to zero, because if no insulated rail joiners are used between points then both controllers will be electrically connected together.