DC to DCC that is the question?

[Bigskybirds]

I have a collection of (150) model trains and decided to make the switch from DC to DCC. I am about a third of the way through this process but I am now (a bit late I know) questioning why I am doing it? I am not a lover of sound in model locos because it rarely matches the real thing and if more than one sound locomotive is running I feel the noise is then chaotic (Personal View).  I think my original decision was to keep my collection up with the times and future proof where possible.

DCC Locomotive control has been an issue for me personally, with DC I can operate my five running tracks and when something goes wrong I have the ability to quickly control the offending train. I find with DCC multiple train control with one operator on a round robin layout is more difficult, you have to select the model that is giving an issue which I usually get wrong so press the red stop button but that does not always work and I end up with a crash on my hands. Recently I had a runaway DCC loco that ended up damaging two other stationary expensive locos because my brain was not quick enough to react. If this has been DC I would have just turned down the regulator to that track rather than have to select the offending loco first. I did press the stop button but one DCC locomotive did not react.

I would like to read other people's views of having made the switch to DCC and if they thought it was worthwhile and what benefits they found by making the switch. I am not looking to argue the case for DC because I realise it is a long in the tooth method of control but I feel for some the simplicity is beneficial.

The reason for my question is to help me decide whether to continue the switch or if I should stop now and even consider converting my locos back to DC, thankfully I have all the blanking plugs :-)

I will put this in the General Discussion forum but happy for moderators to move it. I look forward to hearing other peoples views.

 

[John Bogie]

 It sounds like you already have a great layout.

 

I'd be inclined to stick with the DC. If it aint broke as they say. Tried and tested.

 

And 150 trains. That would cost a bob or two to convert to DCC.

 

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Yelrow]

HFM, Hi, an interesting post. I have about 100 DC, locos, and have not converted any, nor wish to do so . I only got into DCC, when waiting for an impending Knee op, which meant i could not go upstairs. I bought Majestic, set, and now have about 11 DCC locos. Now, able to go upstairs, i moved my DCC layout there.  What i have, is the best of both worlds, on my layout, 9x5, the lower tier consists of 7 loops, all DC, so can run all DC locos to my hearts content. Sitting above, on next tier, is DCC layout, with points, sidings, etc, I do NOT consider DC, control to be inferior, simply, requires more controllers. I have never had a DCC runaway, and have fun with my Fiddle yard, using my Select, Walkabout..  It is a problem facing many with a lot of locos, as cost to convert, even if i wanted to, would be prohibitive.  Regarding the future, Well, my DC/3rail collection, will never be sold. I dont have the same affinity to DCC, and if the chips were down, would part with it. john

[37lover]

HFM,

I have only ever run DCC, and more recently with RM. RM is not to everyone's liking but that does open more options for control. As Yelrow identifies you can also employ the Select as a Walkabout to add extra control, additional Selects cost money but if you added three you would then have instant control of five locos!

[RDS]

Hi HFM

I am not sure you are comparing like with like.

 

Unless I have read it wrong you have 5 (separate?) running tracks on DC and a (single?) round robin layout for DCC.  Running multiple Trains on a single round robin layout with only one operator is going to be difficult when, because of the capabilities of DCC, the Trains can be set at different speeds.

[Bigskybirds]

Thank you all for the replies, very interesting comments so far and helpful.

 

@RDS

Sorry my choice of words may have been incorrect, I have 5 separate ovals they can be DC or DCC but I only run one locomotive on each oval the layout size is approx 10x8. I would not try to run two DCC locomotives on a running oval of track that would be even more difficult for me to control.

 

I think in making the conversion I have bitten off more than I can chew and it may be best to admit that and go back to DC.

[RDS]

But if you are still running just one Loco, (DC or DCC) on each oval, how did a runaway DCC Loco damage another, if they are on separate tracks.

 

I only have a small number of Loco's compared to you, having converted to DCC about 10 years ago but the flexibility of DCC means I (personally) would never consider going back.  I have Select as a Walkabout and the option to use a mobile as a Handheld.  I have no sound Loco's for exactly the same reason you quote.

 

At the end of day though, it is your layout that is intended to give you pleasure and if you feel happier with DC, then that is what you should run.  As can be seen from John's reply above though, he runs both systems and maybe you could consider running (say) 2 DCC loops and 3 DC loops?  It seems a shame having gone to the trouble and expense of converting, that you consider going back.

[Yelrow]

HFM, you could of course adopt my system, with a second tier. Moving back to DC. my latest addition, is a Morley Vectis controller, with 2 hand held  throttles, which i have extended with their 5 metre extension cables. This gives a massive flexibility to DC, enabling you to Drive the locos, from any position on the layout.  If you  go back to DC, you will have  the ability to recover most of your outlay, in resale of decoders. I am sure like me, you would prefer to do that, than dream of parting with your locos. I think a lot of this depends on your age. I came into DCC, at  about 69, and whilst i enjoy it, twill never be my first love. john

[Billy Bong]

 I am only new to all this other than a few trains I had in the 70s.

I like the DCC but did have trouble controling them but found with RM its all good. its all about what you like the most

[Bigskybirds]

 @RDS

 

The DCC loco jumped the points after a runaway and the train and following carragies fell in to two expensive locos parked in an adjacent siding. It was completely out of control.

 

@Yelrow

I think the idea of moving back to DC may be the answer for me, mainly because DCC has not brought any added benefits, perhaps if I was in to sound and automation the answer would be different. I had not thought of selling the decoders but I will take your suggestion on board.

 

Another problem with DCC conversion is, in at least 50% of cases something always falls off a detailed locomotive when I add a decoder. I am not the best at taking things apart and even worse at putting them back together!

 

Thanks again for the feedback. I am in my 60's but as the recent DCC forum survey proved, age seems to have no relevance in which control system people adopt.

[Yelrow]

HFM, hi, I think its a mind thing. I think nothing about stripping down a 3 rail, or DC loco, but would not contemplate taking apart a DCC one, let alone, fitting a decoder. Its also, of course to do with cost. Apart from my  DC Brighton belle, and one Dapol loco, have never paid more than £30 for another DC, 00, TT. Hence  my years of experience tells me, i can mend them. To mess about with locos, over £100, would bring a tad of stress, that i dont need or want. There is also, great satisfaction, with sorting these old beasts out. It would be interesting, bearing in mind the age of the forum, to run a post asking Who fits their own decoders. Ithink the result would be not what we think. john. 

[Bigskybirds]

 @Yelrow

 

You are right, the older locos are more robust. Locomotives purchased recently have many parts off in the box on delivery and the situation gets worse when you try to take them apart. I tried fitting a decoder in to a Hornby S15 but you have to remove the tender bogies to get the body off, it was a nightmare!

[37lover]

 Ithink the result would be not what we think. john. 

John, Would that be a paradox?  🤔

[Yelrow]

It might be, if i knew what it meant. john

[81F]

 My unfinished layout comprises a DC 009 branch and a 00 mainline. and if I could I would make it all DCC as I have spent around five hours (on and off) trying to track down why one point on the 009 has stopped working!

 

The big advantage is wiring not just for points but for locos. If you already have a DC layout fully operational with all the isolators and  switches you need there is probably little point in converting. I would also say the same for someone contemplating a simple "one engine in steam" branch terminus. However, my mainline does comprise two 20x9' loops a branch and an awful lot of point so using DCC makes things a lot easier albeit rather expensive!

 

As to DCC runaways which the red button won't stop, I do get these especially when programing however I've almost trained myself to pull the plug out of the back of the Elite.

[NormanQ4]

I don't believe there is any reason for having runaways on DCC (don't know about DC).

I've solved the problem by having kill switches every 2.0m around my layout.

Six switches wired in series from the eLink, around the perimeter before joining to the track bus.

I'm never more than an outstretched arm and press of a button from stopping everything on the layout, simple.

However you still need a sharp eye and quick reflexes.

[LCDR]

 I have often wondered why people want to have many locomotives under independent control when two is plenty for me on a normal domestic layout, with double track and a few sidings.  I only have one pair of hands and one pair of eyes.

 

 I like the idea of DCC for the extra functions it can give, such as the switching on and off of lights, but I then try and justify the extra cost and workload of converting my huge fleet and I just cannot make the business case.  If I was starting from scratch I would probably go DCC from day 1 but from where I am today I would be staring at a cost in excess of £2500 , probably nearer £5000, if I converted all my stock and the auditors would close the account.

 

Noise doesn't interest me, I have two DCC sound fitted locos and they don't get me too excited.  I bought some DCC gear to run them and it has stayed in its box where I put it after an afternoon's running, over a year ago. A bit if fun, but hardly worth all that extra cost. They really don't sound convincing. I will happily put my Transacord records on the Dansette if I want to listen to some chuffs.  

 

I quite enjoy wiring up the layout and have over the years aquired a huge number of switches and miles of cable, it would be a shame to throw this away.

 

So in conclusion. DCC is not for me.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

DCC can run-away...if the loco has not got a decoder that checks for a DCC signal every now and then, it can just keep on running ! 😮

 

I think that the NMRA standards now have something about signal checks, BUT it seems that this CV function can also be turned off!

 

I have now got "into" DCC....and do fit decoders, and 8 pin sockets (so that I can swap out decoders...), to locos...

 

I have started, and find it OK....so far.

 

Some split chassis locos will be interesting...Bachmann J72 for example.

 

I have done an X.03 motor powered B12 chassis with no problems...

 

In fact I find it interesting work....it would be even nicer if I was being paid for it! 😉

 

As LC&DR says, DCC has its advantages over DC, isolating sections being a big one, but a lot of layouts do not really NEED DCC Control....

 

[NormanQ4]

DCC can run-away...if the loco has not got a decoder that checks for a DCC signal every now and then, it can just keep on running !

 

Sarah. How can it keep on running if you cut the power?

[Bigskybirds]

It has been interesting to read other peoples thoughts on this topic.

 

I will cease further convertions and start the process of converting back using the blanking plugs. To make it easier I will just switch the hard wired locos to run on DC and leave the decoders in.

 

@Yelrow

 

How do you find the Morley controller? I had one for a while but Morley have no controller feedback and the older locos did not run as well at low speed. I use Gaugemaster for DC control.

[Yelrow]

Coo, if i had known you were selling a Morley, i would have bought it. I have Guagemaster, 4 track, as well, as more H&M, duettes and Clippers, as you could throw a stick at. Remember, my 3 rail locos, are 60 years old, plus, and they run perfectly on the Morley. I would not like to choose between Morley, and Guagemaster, the only difference being the length of the warranty. I really like the Hand held morley ones. john

[Bigskybirds]

@Yelrow

 

I think the Gaugemaster has the edge with build quality and warranty, time will tell. 

[2e0dtoeric]

Nobody seems to have asked the question of WHY did the DCC loco run away?

This is usually triggered by NOT having DC running disabled in EACH decoder, and either a momentary short, or a dirty bit of track which corrupts the DCC signal, so the decoder thinks it is being fed with direct current at 16v, sand sends the loco haring off at a silly fast pace.

After using DCC, would I go back to analogue - no.

[walkingthedog]

I think that not having direct control over all moving locos is the main thing that puts me off DCC. I know you can have direct control on a PC, I think, but I'd hate to go down that route. I can run four locos at once and can stop, start, change speed and direction without having to select one to do so, just turn the appropriate knob.  😆

[Yelrow]

2EOD, would you go back, well if you still had 100 locos to convert, bearing in mind the cost, you might.. WTD.  dont forget the Elite has 2 knobs, but basically, i, as you,  am a DC man at heart. john