Lord Nelson

[gowest]

Once again looking at the steam engines built over the years for railway companies in Great Britain in have one or two that I would like to convert into the Hornby 00 live steam models and one that takes my fancy is the Southern Region Lord Nelson class this is because it has a very large tender and it is hoped would run for longer than the 30 minutes that the Hornby engines run for before they run out of water.

Ironically this was for the same reason as SR had no water troughs so picking up water on the move was not a possibility.
Like all railways about this time building bigger and fast engines was always a challenge plus keeping the weight down to limits that the permanent way could accommodate and this type of 4-cylinder 4-6-0 steam locomotive was going to be the next new designed for the Southern Railway by Richard Maunsell, so in August 1926 the first of the class was rolled out they were intended for Continental boat trains between London Victoria and Dover
Harbour. These express passenger trains were to be about 500 tons and in all sixteen of them were constructed representing the most powerful if not the most successful Southern 4-6-0 design and were all named after famous admirals.

 

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The class operated with British Railways until they were withdrawn in 1961 and 1962.
Only one engine of the class survived the first engine built Lord Nelson all the others were sent to the scrap yard.
Richard Maunsell was the Chief Mechanical Engineer at the time and started his design for a 4-cylinder engine with an improved boiler and Belpaire firebox.
The drive would be divided between the front coupled axle for the inside cylinders and the middle coupled axle for the outside cylinders giving better weight distribution and reduced hammer blow. The new design was a compromise between the need for additional power and to keep the weight down to an acceptable limit.
There were two unusual features of the design one was the setting of the crank axles at 135° rather than the standard 90° of other locomotive types. This gave eight beats per
revolution, rather than the usual four this way it would also give an even draw to the fire. The second difference was that fire grate was in two sections, the rear portion was
horizontal and the front sloped away sharply some crews found this hard to fire.

The prototype E850 named Lord Nelson was ordered from Eastleigh railway works in June 1925 but production proceeded slowly at Maunsell’s insistence to ensure that the weight was kept to a minimum at every stage so the locomotive did not appear until August 1926.
It was tested on a variety of duties over the next year, with sufficiently encouraging results for an initial order for ten more locomotives for delivery between May 1928 and April 1929 to be placed.
These were originally scheduled to be allocated to Battersea depot and fitted with 4,000
gallon 6-wheeled tenders suitable for the Continental ports. However, during
construction, it was decided to equip half of the class with 5,000 gallon 8 wheeled tenders necessary for the longer West of England routes which will be the design that I will have a go at these engines were allocate to Nine Elms depot.
A further batch of ten locomotives was ordered in 1928, before the previous batch had been delivered, but when it became apparent that the Stock Market Crash of October 1929 would be likely to reduce the demand for Continental travel, this second order was reduced to five.

I do have an old A3 chassis which was to be part of a GWR tank engine that I was building but will switch it to this engine and hope I can pick up a replacement A3 later for that
conversion.

[96RAF]

Looking forward to the build story on this one Ken, nice loco to model.

Rob

[gowest]

Yes Rob I'm hoping for a much easier build as it will be about 80% of the Hornby parts

Ken

[gowest]

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You can see that I’ve made a start and we need the body of the engine built first so that I can get an idea on just how much space is available for the Hornby parts.

One of the good points about this kit is the white metal fire box it is hoped that I can use this as is and do away with the Hornby weight that is fitted inside the A3 and A4 engines.

This way saving space as already if I build this like other engines in my collection I would want to keep the cab empty for a crew.

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The tender is the part that interreges me for this will have a larger boiler than the A3 and A4 and steam runs will show if this increases the running time ?

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I’m not sure what year this engine should be placed in but maybe keep it in the light green of the Southern Railway.

Still we have a way to go yet as you can see and ideas are coming through the grey Matter fast like when I built the GER S69 engine I used the frames in the kit but this time to save time I might try screwing the frames from the kit onto the Hornby A3 chassis this way the centres of the main drivers can be located from the kit frames and re drilled into the Hornby chassis but all to come.It was said that the first engine took longer to construct than it should this was because the main interest was in keeping the weight down on the overall build to meet the civil engineers requirements.Which reminds me of a job I was on an air born radar each unit had to be weighted this was to keep with in a set overall figure and set at which point for every little increase in weight would mean a reduction in the fuel load. We reckoned by the time we had built the system the plane had just enough fuel to get it to the end of the runway.

[gowest]

the other things is what name should i use?

[96RAF]

the other things is what name should i use?

Ken

 

Have a look here for the fleet names - does anyone of these have a close assoc with you or your area or maybe carried a livery you like.

 

 http://www.semgonline.com/steam/lnclass_dat.html

 

At bottom of page is a link to First page which has an informative write up about the variants.

 

Rob

[gowest]

Thanks Rob

i really like Lord Effingham! 

Sir Fancis Drake pirate explorer 1540 - 1596 born near Tavistock Devon he entered the harbour of Cadiz and burned the Spanish fleet he left for expedition to the West Indies in 1595 and died of a fiver in Panama.

So a loco bloke

Effingham 1536 - 1624 second Baron Howard of Effingham eldest son of William Howard he commaned the English fleet escorting King Philips 2nd of Spain  to England to marry Queen Mary in 1554 but later as Lord Admiral was responsible for preventing the same King Philip's Armada from landing in England 34 years later.

[96RAF]

If it turns out to be a Heinz with 57 varieties of parts how about Lord Ken of Chuffingham, resplendent with your home grown etched brass coat of arms.

Rob

[gowest]

Caiptean

thanks for the history I must log things like this just get things right so keep a watchful eye because I don't know much about these engines.

Rob Lord chuffingham sounds ok I could make a set of plates just for a laugh as they did move plates around didn't they like Winston Churchill i think his funeral train had the name plates switched as WC that look bad? Was in the shops for a refit.

and I think the same happened with King George 5th when he died no doubt someone will put me right if I'm wrong.

Ken

[gowest]

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The first place we need to start is the chassis and the positions of the main drivers and the cylinders and the chimney.These points are different from engine to engine and will determine how much work is involved in the assembly of the Hornby parts to achieve the new layout for a Lord Nelson.In the picture here you can see the dimensions we need to check the main one being the cylinders to the middle driver.

[96RAF]

 

Ken

Graces Guide has a detailed diagram of the loco but at poor resolution - see this screen grab

 

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https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/2/22/Im1926EnV142-p554a.jpg

 

May be of some use to you.

Rob

[96RAF]

Ken here is  a link to the 8-wheel tender

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1926Env142-p558(1).jpg

Rob

[96RAF]

And here is an interesting trials fit ...

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SR_Lord_Nelson_850,_with_indicator_shelter_(CJ_Allen,_Steel_Highway,_1928).jpg

 

No doubt someone can tell the story behind the shelter.

Rob

[96RAF]

Just general engineering interest in what they were testing and why, presumably the sightability of various indicator types, discs, lamps, colours maybe, etc In various weather conditions, day and night.

Rob

[gowest]

Rob 

thanks for the links and drawing these drawing come from a book i have.

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These very good drawings cover most of the mods and details and painting. drawn up by F.J. Roche I hope he doesn't mind me posting these pictures here.

[96RAF]

Drawn in 1948

He might still be hanging around, probably in his 90s.

 

You can find his books online for free download. Some usefull works listed.

Rob

[gowest]

Thanks Rob

[RB51]

Looks like another great build is on the way in which to lose myself - transfixed as ever at the skill on display. Just when I thought I knew very little about this hobby - I discover that I know even less. Good luck with it Ken, can't wait. R-

[96RAF]

DC electric traction - see the beastie I posted in 'Now for something completely different'.

Maybe you can answer Ken's question on current draw at startup.

Rob

[gowest]

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This is the starting point a Hornby A3 Flying Scotsman this chassis was going to be a Great Western tank engine so will look around for a chassis for that job later on maybe something will turn up.

Now the chassis needs taking apart until all that is left is the chassis on its own the reason for this is as we are going to rebuild this chassis into a Lord Nelson class the positions of the main drivers are at different centres than on the A3 take a look at the drawing here.

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With just the Chassis  here all that is left is the brass bearing for the middle set of driving wheels this is the point at which the engine is hoped to emerge this way it is hoped that with little modifications this will be a much faster and easier job. 

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You can see from the drawing here that the new over lapping axle holes in orange will run into the old A3 axle holes so to over come this 2 small aluminium plugs need turning up and blocking the old positions so that the new positions can be re drilled and new bearings made up.

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[gowest]

Into the work shop and turn up the blanking plugs on the lathe as in the picture here.

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On the Hornby chassis the out side ends of the frame need a very small counter sink so that if the metal plugs are made very slightly longer than needed they can be riveted over and this will make for tighter fit.

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The next bit to make is a dummy centre axle with a small spigot this can fit in the centre bearing and the spigot used to locate one of the engines main connecting rods this then can be used a drilling jig to mark out the new positions of the front and rear main drivers.

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the pictuire above shows the duimmy axle in place with the spigot sticking uip.

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now with the connecting rod in place you can see juist how much out the main drivers are so next will be the re drilling of the new axle bearing positions.

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Juist to finish this part a look at this picture shows the difference between the front dimension at 27.58 mm from the centre bearing and the rear one at 31.32 mm 

[96RAF]

All going according to plan so far Ken.

Looking good.

Rob.

[gowest]

Rob

thats when things go wrong just when you think things are going ok already I'm thinking of making the rear wheels set floating to give a better rail contact?

ken

[96RAF]

Some good info here including 2- or 4-6-0

http://www.clag.org.uk/41-0rev.html#section19

Rob

[gowest]

thanks rob have down loaded it but have just finished my own spring wheel set

Ken