Class 08 'DB Schenker' '08623' with TTS Sound

[BucksBiker]

I recently purchased this Class 08 and am very pleased with the quality of finish and detail. The TTS sound is very good and as a returnee to 00 gauge after many years of G Scale it is a revelation. Sound adds a huge dimension to the indoor hobby. My question is about the actual speed of the loco. I do appreciate that the 15mph maximum speed is the correct scale speed but this is just too slow for me. A scale speed of 30mph would be better. I know I'm a philistine. That said, I am hoping that there is a CV that will alter the speed because it ignores all my attemps to set higher speeds in the train configuration page of RM Pro. No details were supplied and I have failed to find a solution on this site. Any advise (apart from "just suck it up fella, that's the correct speed") would be appreciated.

 

[trainlover23]

 It is down to the gearing in the model which is made to represent the prototypical low speed of the prototype. if you want a faster one go for the Railroad one.

[96RAF]

In RM what is the loco set up screen suggesting for cruise speed and when this is selected what position does the throttle bar adopt. If you change this cruise number will the loco go faster. If the throttle bar is less than 100% what happens when you open it up to max chat.

Rob

[BucksBiker]

Thanks for the responses so far.

RAF96. The cruise speed is set to 15 and the slow speed is 10. The throttle bar goes to the top at 15 mph.

Changing the speed does not change the actual speed. There is always 15 displayed at the top of the slider bar. However if the entered speed for cruise is higher than than 15 the red bar disappears off the top of the slider. Slider still shows 15 and the loco travels at the original maximum speed.

The fact that the RM software does show a different display for higher speeds (red slider disappears if 20 is set for cruise for example ) suggests to me that there could be something in the CVs for the 15 limit to be altered. If trainlover23 is right though, then I'll have to live with it. 

Thanks again for responses.

[96RAF]

Try turning off scale speeds in set up.

[BucksBiker]

Mr Moderator sir, you are a star.

Unticking the scale speed setting in setup has resolved the problem. This feature would have been nice to be able to set for each loco separately but it is what it is. I can now achieve slightly higher speeds for my DB Schenker 08. I still feel that there has to be a CV setting somewhere that sets the rules for scale speed for each loco decoder. I guess that's for another day.

Many thanks

[96RAF]

CV5 is Vmax but if the loco is mechanically geared down to a semi-crawl then flat out is flat out and no amount of electro-magic fiddling will make it go turbo.

[Chrissaf]

I still feel that there has to be a CV setting somewhere that sets the rules for scale speed for each loco decoder.

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There is.......sort of.

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There is a setting in RM, where you can trick the software into increasing or decreasing an individual loco speed relative to the software throttle position.

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Turning off 'scale speeds' is a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

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Read Pages 36 to 38 of the RM manual. Now you can't implement the full instructions in this manual section if you haven't got access to the oval of track. But that does not stop you from putting in "plucked from the air" values in the dialogue box shown below.

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/media/tinymce_upload/9b459762875b9f278d382e5cb2d1a4ee.jpg

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Set the actual loco speed to a higher value.

then

Decreasing the 'Time to Travel' value decreases the loco speed.

Increasing the 'Time to Travel' value increases the loco speed.

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Note that for the above to be taken account of, you will need to re-instate the 'Use Scale Speeds' setting.

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Experimentation with the values in the configuration box above, should give you more control over a loco's speed.

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As I understand it, this is where HRMS use 'profiling' data when adding Hornby locos to the database. By amending the values in the dialogue box above, you are overwriting the HRMS data with new values.

[WilliamDavid]

Although I have used the above speed correction function a few times, I still can't get my head around it.

How do you determine the loco's maximum speed?

When you run it around the test track, is that with the controller at maximum, or the Railmaster speed reading set at the loco max speed?

The time factor seems back to front. If it takes, say 20 secs to do the loop, surely to make it go faster you need to reduce the time, not increase it.

What I have done is enter, say 50mph and 10secs, and try. If too slow I enter 15 secs, and so on. Totally unscientific.

[Chrissaf]

The time factor seems back to front. If it takes, say 20 secs to do the loop, surely to make it go faster you need to reduce the time, not increase it.

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Let's say that the loco is running at the correct speed but is perceived to be too slow and the user wants the loco to go faster.

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Let's also assume as an example that the loco takes 10 seconds to travel 6 metres and that is the time value (10 seconds) that is currently in the box, and that the value of 10 seconds is the correct value for the loco speed.

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So, if you enter 15 seconds in the box, RM will think that the loco is taking 5 seconds longer than it should do to travel the 6 metres. Therefore RM will increase the loco speed to compensate. RM doesn't know that the loco was already travelling at the correct scale speed and was taking 10 seconds to do the 6 metre distance, the 15 seconds is an incorrect value entry that makes the loco think it is travelling too slow.

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Therefore, increasing the time value makes the loco go faster and decreasing the time value makes the loco go slower.

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However, note this. If the loco is now travelling faster it now takes less than 10 seconds to travel the 6 metres. Let's say 7 seconds for example. You do not not now put 7 seconds in the value box, you leave it at 15 seconds. The value box will only have the actual time value in the box when running at an ACCURATE scale speed. By putting 15 seconds in the box you are falsifying the data to trick the loco into running at a NON true scale speed i.e faster in this case.

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Put another way, if you want to force a different inaccurate speed. The time in the box is not the time in seconds that you WANT the loco to take to travel the specified distance, or the time the loco actually takes to cover the specified distance. It is the time that you want RM to think it is taking, which is two completely different things.

[2e0dtoeric]

Decreasing the 'Time to Travel' value decreases the loco speed.

Increasing the 'Time to Travel' value increases the loco speed.

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I don't use elink etc, so I may be wrong, but surely that quote is backwards.

If you decrease the time to travel a set distance, surely you are INCREASING the loco speed, and vice-versa?

[Chrissaf]

Eric

Read the explanation in my second post...... time stamped at 13:29....where I explain why it is backwards.

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Yes a loco takes less time to travel a set distance if travelling faster. And Yes a loco takes more time to travel a set distance if travelling slower. But that is NOT the information that is being inputted into the dialogue box for this workaround.

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Remember it is a workaround to achieve the original posters requirement of making a 'scale speed' loco go faster. One is fudging the data entry value to achieve the original posters required outcome. It is NOT the way that Hornby (HRMS) intended the 'Scale Speed' dialogue box to be used.

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The data entered into the box is fictitious and just saying the loco is going faster or slower. The times entered for the workaround are not based on 'real time'. You only enter 'real life timings' into the data entry box when you want the loco to travel at true 'scale speed'. In this scenario, the OP wants the loco to travel FASTER than scale speed, hence why the values at first glance appear backwards. The value in seconds in this scenario entered into the value boxes are not based upon actual reality time measurements.

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[2e0dtoeric]

OOPS sorry! Side effect of 'skimming' the thread because I'm not really interested, just looking to see what was going on!

[Chrissaf]

No problem Eric, it gave me an opportunity to reiterate the work-around again, but in different words, so that it sinks in (hopefully).

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I try to avoid 'skim reading' if I can, as I have misread OP's posts as a result. Some OP posts, when long and unpunctuated do however tend to lead one to skim read them almost out of necessity.

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PS - This is a post topic that I have added to my forum boiler-plate doc for future referrals. Thus, the later reiteration above is beneficial for that.

[BucksBiker]

Hi Chrissaf

Oh, yes. Thanks very much. That advise has provided a perfect solution. I now have scale speeds for all my other locos and have successfully increased the speed of the 08. 

Many thanks

[Chrissaf]

Phew that's a relief......I say that, because it was pure theory based upon reading the manual that I have never personally put into practice.

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Feedback about a working solution is always appreciated.

[96RAF]

/media/tinymce_upload/ba7b28681220c714fe4d7e3613adf2c0.PNG 

I was persuing the RM Knowledgebase and following my nose came up with this...If all else fails RTFM.

Rob

 

[Fishmanoz]

Or in this case Rob, TFKB.

[2e0dtoeric]

Persuing or perusing, Rob?   😛

[96RAF]

Persuing or perusing, Rob?   😛

Looking at after I caught it.

...auto-spell check fails again.

Rob

[BagEndJct]

I have just taken delivery of one of these and, as mentioned in another thread, I am thrilled with its performance.

In the database in my copy of RM, which is the latest, this loco has default settings of 5mph for shunting and 10mph for cruising. Even slower than the experience of our OP here! It really is s-l-o-w!

 

I'll try upping these to the 10mph and 15mph settings mentioned above and see how it runs.

[2e0dtoeric]

They are supposed to be slow, they are geared for tractive effort, not speed, in real life!

[BagEndJct]

They are supposed to be slow, they are geared for tractive effort, not speed, in real life!

Yes, I had picked that up. I was commenting on the default settings in my RM loco database being slower than those talked about above. I do love the way this one runs.

[aec pete]

if the 08 is too slow for you get an hst or an apt. the 08 is a shunting loco.you could buy a railroad 06 which is a pocket rocket