Analogue operation vs DCC

[chris_ansell]

Hi!

I'm looking for advice  (again!).

I've now got my layout of 4 oval circuits and various sidings operating (the outer two are analogue and the inner DCC).

I'm dissatisfied with the DCC operation  and not sure if it's the Hornby controller I'm using  (it's the basic DCC controller) or whether scrub it and convert to analogue.

So my point is convert to analogue or upgrade the controller. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Chris 

[Kevin Hodges]

 I grew rather tired of the DCC gimmick and razzamatazz and bought myself a decent Dual DC controller. It has that 'old school' feel and heft to it.

 

It even has a 'inertia', braking feature that I love.

 

I haven't looked back and have saved myself a lot of $$$ on decoders etc.

 

Now I run my trains, they don't run me.

 

I sold all my DCC controllers and gear and bought a couple of nice DC locos with the change.

 

Each to his own though.

 

Kev.

[Chrissaf]

A loco that is equipped with a DCC decoder that has the default configuration in it. Will have 'DC Operation' enabled. This means that on an analogue powered track, it will act just like a normal DC Analogue locomotive.

.

So.....if you disconnect your DCC controller from the inner loops completely. Then transfer your DC Analogue controller connection to the inner loops instead. You can then test the inner loops and the DCC locos for function under DC Analogue control. If there are still issues, then you can be fairly certain that they are down to the inner track or the DCC locos themselves.

[2e0dtoeric]

In what way are you dissatisfied with DCC?

As you don't specify, we cannot offer any advice on the problem.

[ellocoloco]

@chris_ansell

 

As Eric suggests, let us know in what way you are dissatisfied with DCC?

 

You note that the inner two circuits are under DCC control - could the tighter radius be causing problems? Also what types of locos are you using and what chips are in them? How is the DCC controller connected to the track?

 

You also mention the controller as basic (Select?) - this should still allow trouble free operation on a simple circuit and make the locos do what they should. I am using a Roco 10761 amplifier with both a Multimaus and a Lokmaus 2 - they don't get much more basic......As Chrissaf suggests, before you decide to upgrade or revert back to DC, make sure the set up is fundamentally sound and your controller is functioning properly. I would never revert to straight DC now - although I have some locos I would never convert and keep a Duette for them...........Best of luck.

[RDS]

I (personally) would not even dream of going back to DC.  I also have a 4 loop layout, with 16 sidings and 18 Loco's on the layout all the time.  Any Loco can go from anywhere to anywhere, without even considering whether any other Loco will move.  Try doing that with DC.

[walkingthedog]

No problem, do it all the time. Also I know exactly which loco will move from what position it is in not which loco it is.  😆

 

I shall say no more, don’t want to get into a my system is better than yours conversation. They both do what the operator requires. Each to his/her own.

[RDS]

Really WTD?

Sorry I didn't realise but I would be very interested to know how it is done (not on this thread though).

[2e0dtoeric]

If WTD has more than one loco parked on a siding, and he can move one but not the other, using analogue, he must have a lot of isolating sections! (and spaghetti with associated switches!)

[walkingthedog]

Several switches no spaghetti, well maybe a little, mainly neat wiring. Points act as switches as well. Anybody would think that nobody could run complicated layouts before DCC.  😆

 

It's a bit like working an old style signal box. Very enjoyable and I don’t have to know the identity of each loco. It’s its location that decides if it will move not its number. 

[96RAF]

I bet the underneath of your layout is just as interesting as the topside WTD.

As you say DC is simply a matter of moving blocks of electricity along the route by way of switches, be they points or actual switches. To use your signal box analogy the signalman can be seen as the block switcher using signals and tokens rather than electricity.

[walkingthedog]

Some people think that before DCC all you could have is a circle with a train going round and round. If I were starting out or didn’t have so many locos I would go DCC in a flash. Well not a flash that might cause damage. 

[2e0dtoeric]

😛 Carefully avoiding the issue of more than one loco in a siding, and moving one but not the other!  😛 😎

[Jimbo1707820979]

Each system has its advantages and disadvantages that is why I run both :

DC  Less sensitive to dirt

       Less expensive

       Quicker to set in motion, esp. with remote controls for power

       Some (older) locos only DC or hard to convert to DCC

DCC  Can run 2 or more locos on same track without coming together

          Sound and lights available (unhappily I am deaf !  But most people aren't ! 😀 )

         A variety of settings re acceleration, deceleration  etc etc etc

          Considerably more expensive for a large collection of locos. Also for the controller.

BTW  I started off with DCC  but came to appreciate DC.  I have doubtless failed to mention many other points but thought these observations might be useful, esp. to someone just starting out.

[Trainman1974]

I used to run my layout just DC but then I started collecting DCC Ready locos and when Hornby started TTS I brought a couple of the TTS decoders and a hormby select controller to try them out and found DCC was great and now ive fitted decoders to all my locos and brought a Hornby elite and elink and I will never go back to DC operation.

[96RAF]

I started with the DC version V-S Orient Express Boxed Set around 2005, converted to DCC very soon after and never looked back. 

[2e0dtoeric]

None of this waffle explains why Chris Ansell was dissatisfied by DCC.

I notice he has not responded.

[ColinB]

As I said in an earlier post, I bought a Lord Nelson with TTS. Once I had got DCC working (it was much easier than I orginally thought), there was no going back especially when you have TTS. I find that TTS sound adds a new dimension, I now find the non TTS locos boring. I must admit my locos seem to run the same on DCC as they did on DC, if anything better on DCC. My layout is still wired up as DC with isolating sections on each point, with a microswitch below each motor to enable the isolated section. The only big issue I am having is what to do about my Wrenn Locos, some of the Battle of Britain ones are really nice models, which I would like to convert to DCC, but would you want to hack at a supposed "collectors Item". The only real issue I have is forgetting the loco ID and wondering why the train won't run, especially if you set its value before you changed locos, and you cannot understand why you cannot change the speed with the controller. The other slight issue I have is. I own a Fleishmann DCC controller and an Elite (both bought as broken, which I fixed), on Fleishman the rotary controller is terrible it is always getting the setting wrong, and on both I would prefer a slider, which was on my home made controller. I know why they use a rotary controller, we used to use them on car audio units, but in Fleishman's case they don't seem to be reading it properly.

[2e0dtoeric]

Still no response from Chris Ansell

so until he reports what the problem was, all this waffle is futile.

[Puffingbill]

 I guess we are all different but after owning and building two DCC layouts I finally bit the bullet and made the switch back to DC, I guess I enjoy flicking switches more than I do pushing button, all of my small engines run better as DC rather than DCC I just feel that I have more control over them, like most I felt I needed to keep up with the times so went digital I later realised that not only did I not need it but wasted a load of money in the experiment, I know others love digital but it’s just not for me.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Glad to see I'm not in a minority of ONE + WTD, Puffingbill. And welcome to the forum. I guess it is a bit like preferring steam locos to diesel/electrics 😀   (Although I must admit some of my favourite runners are Class 47 and those huge U.S. switching diesels, of which I have none).

[Ed_Cairns]

In my opinion there are so many reasons for a DCC layout to provide better performance and more function than a block operated DC (Analogue) system. Some of my thoughts are listed :

 Independent locomotive control on the same track / power is available on the track at all times (useful for such things as coach lights) / a simple two wire bus system distributes power to the whole layout / turnouts or points can be controlled by DCC capacitive discharge modules located next to the points that are actually powered - which results in much simplier wiring / Using Hornby's RailMaster software allows a PC to control all the layout points and if you wish locomotives as well / Locomotive motors are pulse width modulated by the DCC module in the locomotive which results in excellent slow speed control / TTS modules add the realism of syncronized sound to the DCC layout / locomotive acceleration and deceleration rates are programmable which adds to the control realism / reverse  loop track operation is absolutely seamless / even layout signal systems can be DCC controlled -

I've probably missed something when describing what I see as the advantages of a DCC layout - but having run Analog Layouts in the past, I for one really enjoy the simplicity and realism that a DCC system brings to this great hobby.

[Puffingbill]

You forgot to mention all the extra problems DCC can bring like incompatibility, continual short circuits, and the extra cost, frankly I could not see the benifit by switching to digital, I far prefer reliable running which brings me much enjoyment, not as annoyed as my mate though that chucked his Dynamis controller across his 40 ft shed then finished it off with a hammer.

[walkingthedog]

You’ve said a lot Ed and I could probably say the same about DC. Sound and lights interest me in no way at all. 

 

When I read the pages and pages of problems people have with DCC I know I made the right choice. Each to his/her own. 

 

I won't query why people use DCC and I don’t expect people to query why I don’t use it. Their choice and my choice and neither of us are wrong.  😆

[2e0dtoeric]

PuffingBilly put - incompatibility, continual short circuits, and the extra cost

-

What incompatibility?

Continual short circuits? That's bad wiring or bad track layout, not DCC controllers.

Extra cost? ONE controller, NO switches, almost no wires (depending on the size of the layout).

It's like claiming that an automatic car is better than a manual shift car. They both get you from A to B, but using a slightly different method, and it takes a little time to learn how to work it.