Mystery Loco

[Jeff Mennell]

Can anybody shed any light as to what this loco is and when it was made? The only thing I know about it is that it's made by Airfix!

/media/tinymce_upload/bd0c0daaff6fb6a6971ffa70da90800e.jpg

Many thanks

 

Jef

[walkingthedog]

It is a GWR/WR 14XX Class 0-4-2. 

 

Google that and you'll find lots of pictures and info.  😀

[96RAF]

Not a Jinty

The GMR/Airfix one has a rear funnel whereas the Hornby one doesnt.

/media/tinymce_upload/a39793891ae068667c135fb6bf473f51.PNG

 

Edit:

I stand corrected by WTD who got in whilst my picture was loading. Note the lack of a link rod between the centre and rear wheels. Looking closer at the advert I found ...Airfix 54153 BR Green Class 14XX no 1466

Rob

[walkingthedog]

Thats not a rear funnel it's a GWR safety valve cover. They liked to be different.  😆

 

It's the one in the second picture. The Jinty is an 0-6-0 not an 0-4-2. 

 

By the time my pictures arrive RAF, Jeff would have taken up a new hobby. 

[Jeff Mennell]

Thats not a rear funnel it's a GWR safety valve cover. They liked to be different.  😆

 

It's the one in the second picture. The Jinty is an 0-6-0 not an 0-4-2. 

 

By the time my pictures arrive RAF, Jeff would have taken up a new hobby. 

Lol! I had a look and it seems the Airfix version of this was a pile of pants as it had no pulling power. I wonder if that was because the magnet wasn't very strong and if it was replaced with a neo magnet it would improve things...Anyway I bought it as a pair of locos from the auction site. It looks as though it has been used as a static model but I'll see if I can get it going. I believe the pickups on them were also a weak point so I obviously got a bargain there!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[LCDR]

 The 14xx was first made by Airfix around 1978, but eventually passed to Dapol who made them between 1985 and about 1996. They sold the tools to Hornby and they were eventually made by Hornby using the Airfix tooling from 1997 onwards, It has been sold by Hornby in various guises including with a face as 'Oliver' in the Thomas series about ten years ago, and as Titfield Thunderbolt in a set a couple of years ago,

 

It is now out of the Hornby catalogue but Hattons have commissioned their own version manufactured by DJ models,

 

The Airfix  loco had a heavy metal weighted chassis which filled the tanks and boiler, and one pair of driving wheels had plastic traction tyres.  Pick up was via all wheels, the trailing wheels too. It was never intended to pull much of a load, the real thing used to push & pull a maximum of two coaches most of the time.  I believe Hornby did upgrade the mechanism a bit.

[Nick_]

The 14xx is back in the Hornby 2017 catalog as Railroad model R3589 at £45 and is due 'Winter 2017'

[96RAF]

By the time my pictures arrive RAF, Jeff would have taken up a new hobby. 

WTD - just ask Adam via email if your pictures can be posted without moderation as you are a long time served and trustworthy valuable forum member, etc.

Rob

[The Doc]

 Hi Jeff,

It looks as if your model has been altered from the original Airfix because it is lacking a "topfeed" between chimney and dome, whereas all Airfix/Dapol/Hornby versions have the topfeed (as far as I know) as a moulded part of the body.  Is th body plastic, or metal (in which case it would be a hybrid between Airfix and a whitemetal kit)?  Another thing about the original Airfix version is that the handrails on the boiler stuck out too much - yours looks as if they are less prominent.

So your loco body could be quite unique, but unfortunately, as you have found out already, the chassis is pretty poor.

[walkingthedog]

Thanks RAF I will do that.

[Jeff Mennell]

 Hi Jeff,

It looks as if your model has been altered from the original Airfix because it is lacking a "topfeed" between chimney and dome, whereas all Airfix/Dapol/Hornby versions have the topfeed (as far as I know) as a moulded part of the body.  Is th body plastic, or metal (in which case it would be a hybrid between Airfix and a whitemetal kit)?  Another thing about the original Airfix version is that the handrails on the boiler stuck out too much - yours looks as if they are less prominent.

So your loco body could be quite unique, but unfortunately, as you have found out already, the chassis is pretty poor.

Re the topfeed...... is that the odd shovel looking thing?

[Postman Prat]

 Hi Jeff

 

There is no top-feed on your loco.

 

The shovel shaped object appears to be ..............................a shovel! 😆

 

[The Doc]

/media/tinymce_upload/fd0ace8f4b885008fe1d3cdfc6f2a853.jpg

 

The top feed is absent from your model but is present in all Airfix/Dapol/Hornby versions - see picture.

 

[Jeff Mennell]

/media/tinymce_upload/fd0ace8f4b885008fe1d3cdfc6f2a853.jpg

 

The top feed is absent from your model but is present in all Airfix/Dapol/Hornby versions - see picture.

 

That's odd, I wonder why it's missing.

[Postman Prat]

 Hi Jeff

 

I cannot comment about whether all the models had top-feeds.

 

The (real) locos were built without top-feeds. At some point they were so fitted, but not to all of them - some locos were scrapped, or entered preservation, still without them. Work from photos.

[Jeff Mennell]

 Hi Jeff,

It looks as if your model has been altered from the original Airfix because it is lacking a "topfeed" between chimney and dome, whereas all Airfix/Dapol/Hornby versions have the topfeed (as far as I know) as a moulded part of the body.  Is th body plastic, or metal (in which case it would be a hybrid between Airfix and a whitemetal kit)?  Another thing about the original Airfix version is that the handrails on the boiler stuck out too much - yours looks as if they are less prominent.

So your loco body could be quite unique, but unfortunately, as you have found out already, the chassis is pretty poor.

It's an odd loco. There is absolutely no indication of a topfeed or of there having ever been one! I think I will have a go at replacing the daft plunger type pickups with something scratch built and see how the motor runs. If it does. The body is def plastic and the chassis says Airfix!

Cheers

 

Jeff

[walkingthedog]

I think they only fitted top feeds to some of the early variety numbered 48XX and mayber a few of the renimbered 14XX so your loco is probably correct. 

[Jeff Mennell]

I think they only fitted top feeds to some of the later variety numbered 48XX and mayber a few of the earlier 14XX so your loco is probably correct. 

That clears that up then. What do you think of my idea about making new pickups?

[walkingthedog]

It would appear when they were overhauled they could reappear with or without the top feed. 

 

Replacing the pickups would not be a bad idea. 

[Jeff Mennell]

It would appear when they were overhauled they could reappear with or without the top feed. 

 

Replacing the pickups would not be a bad idea. 

Sounds a reasonable explanation!

Cheers

[Postman Prat]

 Hi Jeff (& WTD)

 

When built all of this class was numbered  in the 48xx series. At the same time some (20, I think) were built without push/pull gear and they were numbered 58xx.

 

The 48xx were renumbered during the period, post-war, when the mainline companies were trying out oil-firing. The 48xx number series was required by the oil-firing locos of class 28xx.

 

[81F]

 From research done many years ago for my Airfix locos if you want to have a number in the 48XX series it is a reasonably safe bet that the loco would not have top feed. I would also add that it could have either GREAT WESTERN or the shirt button logo.

 

If you want GWR on the tanks then you would have to use the 14XX series but find a photo of that loco to see if it had received it's top feed. The same also applies to any BR liveried locos. Interestingly the now preserved 1420 did not have top feed when it worked the last train to Woodstock (1957?) but had certainly received one by the time it entered preservation. Also 1450 still does not have one now.

 

As an aside I think Airfix descision to make this back in the 1970s was a marketing stoke of genious as I remember most of the articles in the Model railway press were of GWR branch termini and if you had one of these then the 14XX/48XX was a must have loco along with the Auto coach.

 

In the subject of train lengths if operating with an Auto coach as a push/pull unit the most coaches you can have from the loco is two. So the maximum train length would be four Auto Coaches with the loco sandwitched between each pair. Sometimes the loco was sandwiched between two single coaches or had two coaches one end and one the other.

 

Hope this helps

[Jeff Mennell]

 From research done many years ago for my Airfix locos if you want to have a number in the 48XX series it is a reasonably safe bet that the loco would not have top feed. I would also add that it could have either GREAT WESTERN or the shirt button logo.

 

If you want GWR on the tanks then you would have to use the 14XX series but find a photo of that loco to see if it had received it's top feed. The same also applies to any BR liveried locos. Interestingly the now preserved 1420 did not have top feed when it worked the last train to Woodstock (1957?) but had certainly received one by the time it entered preservation. Also 1450 still does not have one now.

 

As an aside I think Airfix descision to make this back in the 1970s was a marketing stoke of genious as I remember most of the articles in the Model railway press were of GWR branch termini and if you had one of these then the 14XX/48XX was a must have loco along with the Auto coach.

 

In the subject of train lengths if operating with an Auto coach as a push/pull unit the most coaches you can have from the loco is two. So the maximum train length would be four Auto Coaches with the loco sandwitched between each pair. Sometimes the loco was sandwiched between two single coaches or had two coaches one end and one the other.

 

Hope this helps

That's useful info thanks. Sorry to ne useless but what is an 'auto coach'?!

 

[walkingthedog]

An auto coach is a coach with a cab at one end with controls mechanical connected to the loco. On a branch line where the loco could only stay at one end of the train, the driver would be in the loco when the loco was on the front of the train pulling the coaches. On the return journey where the loco pushes the coaches, the fireman would stay on the loco but the driver would control the loco from the cab in the auto coach. 

 

Here's one. You can just about make out the cab on the right hand end. 

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/gwr-autocoach-1.html

 

[81F]

 An auto coach was a specially designed or adapted coach with a cab so that the train could be driven without the need for the loco to run round. I believe this was pioneered by the GWR. Hornby used to make one and like the 14XX or "Auto tank" it was inherited from Airfix who brought it out at the same time as the loco (I think)

This link should go to a picture of one https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R4547-LN_3096228_Qty1_1.jpg

The various manufacturers made them in GWR and various BR liveries and although out of production second hand ones are available. However if buying one watch out for broaken roof vents and missing handrails (though the latter is easily replaced with bent wire - Indeed I have about 7 to do for 3 of my coaches!

Bachmann also make an Auto coach, however this of a later type that was built after nationalization.

Although the photo in the link below shows one of the Auto fitted panniers (rather than a 48XX) it does show how trains were made up if you needed more than two coaches.

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1793.htm