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Scale Miles Per Hour - Can the Hornby Mallard beat the original Mallard?


Chris and Archie

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What a great way to do maths!. Railways can be very educational in many ways. The King class locos being an example of a history lesson finding out about who the Kings were.The Jubilees class, has a mix of geography and history researching their names. Loved the video and what a super layout.

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Railways can be educational in many ways..... When I was applying for an apprenticship back in 1977 I remember the letter told me to bring to the interview examples of practical school projects and other handywork / hobbies I may have.

I was at the time attepting to make a steam loco body out of copper pipe and sheet copper soldered together. It wasn't really that good, but for a 16-year old, it was probably impressive and I count taking that along as one of many contribution factors that got me selected. There were 10 apprenticships going and 350 had applied... 

Basic wiring, woodwork, metalwork, painting.... I learned the lot from my model trains...

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This video took me back about 40 years to when my brother and I did the same calculations (pre-calculators, so long multiplication and division where the order of the day).  I remember clearly that our fastest loco was Nellie, followed by the Flying Scotsman and then the Midland Pullman.  They all obeyed Isaac Newton's 4th law of motion, that model trains always run faster in reverse.  I have a feeling that Nellie clocked up a scale speed of around 150mph.  Clearly Sir Nigel Gresley knew nothing about loco design, and should have made Mallard an 0-4-0 tank engine. 😆

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Thanks for the kind words folks, glad you enjoyed it too.

I remember school before calculators too, Doc. That is one thing technology certainly has helped with! OK, so shunters in reverse it is next time! Haha...Vespa, you're so right. We did history of the Kings of England through the King Class. Talking of which, I never figured out why Edward II got his own loco named after him?CheersChris

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I went over to the other forum just to have a look see at the posted comments John was referring to. What a rude nasty person that individual was, obviously someone with some form of inferiority complex. If it was me, I'd have him banned for comments like that. He should have been praising Chris for involving his son Archie with extra learning at home, even if it was a bit 'tongue in cheek'. So many parents just don't seem to engage their children in learning at home. However, I bet Archie had a calculator hidden away to use when dad was not looking.... 😉

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Railway's and education excellent combination.  I'm doing a excess course at mo. to go to University next year to do (sorry -  read ) History.  can you guess what I am planning to study?  

 

 Its nice to see Hobbies being used in such a way. 

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 ...can you guess what I am planning to study? 

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What have the Romans ever done for us ?... 🤔

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Railways.......no doesn't sound right somehow......roads maybe.... 😀

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Chrissaf wrote- "I went over to the other forum just to have a look see at the posted comments John was referring to. What a rude nasty person that individual was, obviously someone with some form of inferiority complex. If it was me, I'd have him banned for comments like that. He should have been praising Chris for involving his son Archie with extra learning at home, even if it was a bit 'tongue in cheek'. So many parents just don't seem to engage their children in learning at home. However, I bet Archie had a calculator hidden away to use when dad was not looking.... 😉"

Thanks Chris, I had a look too. I was amazed that we'd somehow got him so upset. Oh dear. I don't think he'll want to see us doing the 0-4-0 at full pelt in our next video!As you say, just trying to make maths homework a bit more fun for the lad. I'll think we'll stick to the more positive attitude of the members of this forum in future...And, oh yes a calculator was certainly in use!!!!...and thanks 81F glad you enjoyed it too!CheersChris

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Just had a thought. I bet that other forum poster got so worked up because his minuscule brain couldn't follow and understand the maths and felt belittled by it.

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PS - One issue with this forum as you have probably noticed is that line gaps between paragraphs get stripped out.

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If you put TWO carriage returns to mark a paragraph. One carriage return gets stripped out leaving the second one behind.

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Notice how the double carriage return text posted above has paragraph gaps.

But this single carriage return one does not.

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"Just had a thought. I bet that other forum poster got so worked up because his minuscule brain couldn't follow and understand the maths and felt belittled by it."

 

That did occur to me when one of the posts over there said the best way to judge a trains speed was looking at it and guessing. Why didn't Gresley think of that instead of dragging the dynamometre out? 😆

 

Thanks for the tip on paragraphing!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

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I have been posting on the other forum since March and so just getting to know the regulars on there but I must admit, I was quite taken aback by such an insensitive comment but that particular member means no harm but his choice of words can often be taken the wrong way......... 🤔..........HB

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Thanks for the tip on paragraphing!

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Another forum TIP. If you want to highlight some text as being a quote from another persons post, but it doesn't warrant using the White Arrow/Blue Box 'Quote this whole Post' button. Copy and paste the quoted text as normal. Highlight it by dragging your mouse cursor over it, then click the 66 icon to the right of the 'Italics' icon. This will put the highlighted text in its own yellow box as I have done above. You can also Bold things using the B icon too, as well as making it 'Italics' as well. In other words, although the text tools are quite limited, you can layer them one on top of the other. I would like the forum software to add an underline icon, that would be a useful addition.

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I guess this next video won't be popular with some but here's the Hornby 0-4-0 'Pocket Rocket' doing timed laps to work out its scale speed.

 

WARNING- THIS VIDEO CONTAINS GRAPHIC FOOTAGE OF A MODEL TRAIN GOING AT AN UNREALISTICALLY HIGH SPEED!

 

This one really would have done an awful lot faster on a straight!

 

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I have refrained from comment on this subject - on both forums - mainly because I am completely disinterested in locos going 'full pelt'. It happened rarely in the real world and this should be reflected in the model world as well.

However, using the layout as a means of education for other subjects is a work of genius - I particularly liked the use of King class locos in the history lesson!

Now, turning to the comments on the other forum. Whilst the comment was unnecessarily harsh, the vilification on here is also wildly out of place and, in my opinion, posted without knowing the person involved.

I hope he won't mind me saying this (only repeating things he has already posted) but Rod has had a difficult time recently in his family life and is struggling with some health issues. Unfortunately, the drugs he is on can cause mood swings and it is this that I put the comment down to.

And if anyone here bothered to read all his comments on that thread you will see that later in the day he was quite complimentary.

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And as for banning him Chrissaf, I've read much worse on this forum with no action being taken. And as the comment is on another forum do you not think that any criticism should be posted there rather than here?

Steve I agree with you, to use this forum to criticise somebody on another forum is cowardly, especially without knowing all the facts. 

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It's a great pity that an adverse comment by one member (whichever forum) escalates to further undesirable comments when the original upset should have be contained to the two parties involved in the beginning.......we should all have learned by experience that no good comes from the proliferation of criticism........ 😎..........HB

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 It is good to see that the model railway hobby can provoke interest in mathmatics and science, as well as art, craft and technical ability. It is also a good medium to explore social and economic history, and geography, and although there are those who don't believe in geographic and historical accuracy in a model railway, anyone who does apply some discipline to this aspect, and carries out research to get it correct will very quickly develop a better understanding of these factors that have shaped our nations.  The recent television programmes which looked at the Social and Econoimic impact of railways were also very welcome.

 

My own mathmatical expertise is fairly limited, and I like to reduce these kinds of issues to basics. And as an old  dinosaur I also need to work in imperial units. However I rationalise model train speed as follows.

 

An express passenger train in steam days tended to average 60 miles per hour. I always understood this to be a mile in a minute.  Now in 4mm scale a mile is represented by 23 yards (69 feet or 828 inches, obrained by dividing by 76) so a typical 4mm scale express train should cover that 23 yards in 1 minute.  A typical model railway in a 8 by 4 board will have a continuous running line of approximately 7 yards. So for a realistic speed a steam hauled express train train should complete three and a quarter laps in one minute. A typical goods train travels at about 30 mph, so should take twice as long to do those laps. (2 minutes to go round 3.25 times).

 

Where people often get it wrong are shunting engines. A shunting engine usually travelled at walking pace, say 5mph. So a 4mm scale shunting engine should travel the 23 yards in 12 times the time. 

 

Looking at it in another way

5 mph is 8800 yards in an hour

Divided by 60 gives 146 yards in a minute (real world)

Divide 146 by 76 to give it in 4mm to 1 foot scale = 1.9 yards in 1 minute,  (or more understandibly 1.14 inch per second or 10 seconds to travel 1 foot.)

 

Does you shunting engine travel a foot in 10 seconds?

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