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Fitting a stay-alive in a 0-6-0, or new pickups.


garrettendi

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I have the R1173 Western Master, and the supplied Pannier Tank seems to have stalling issues. It stalls on two sections of the track about a fifth of the time, and over the insulated frog about half the time when the frog is on the left side of the train. Turning the train around, so the frog is on the right side of the train is even worse, almost always stalling on the frog.

I'm pretty confident there is no issue with the track, as I have a 0-4-0 loco converted from DC to DCC, which despite the shorter wheel base, runs almost perfectly, making full loops consecutive times with no stalls.

The issue with the Pannier (0-6-0) is worse at slower speeds too. I think the problem could be with the loco itself, that maybe I need the pickups repaired, or new pickups installed to increase the wheels that pick up the signal. Or maybe it just needs a clean.

But to refer to the title... I have considered installing a DCC Concepts decoder with stay-alive capacitor. Is this even possible as the capacitor is 15 mm long, and real estate inside the Pannier's chassis is limited.

What are my best options? I am hopeless at electrical work, so I'd need to go to my local hobby shop for the works.

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I was also of the understanding that the stay alive unit supplied with the DCC Concepts decoder would do as you wish.

However, it did not make any difference whatsoever to my loco.

I phoned DCC Concepts to complain about this and was informed that this particular stay alive unit is only designed to smooth out the running of the loco not to improve running over points, dirty track etc. 

It does not have enough oomph.

To buy these units separately works out around £4 to £5 each.

To do what you want you would need to buy a capacitor like TCS Keep Alive, NCE No Halt or Soundtraxx Current Keeper which are vastly more expensive, around £27 each.

DCC Concepts say they are developing a capacitor that will do the job but not yet on the market.

Apparently there has been court action brought by TCS against DCC Concepts for using the term Stay Alive as people like you and I liken it to Keep Alive when it is not.

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Take a look at the service sheet to see if the pickups are on all wheels as it may be it is lifting a wheel and losing contact.

 

I had a Baccy Jinty that had moulded springs under the chassis which lifted the wheels over a point, so I filed them down for clearance.

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I think the pickups are the problem yes. I'll take a look when I can. As for the "stay alive" further Googling backs up NormanQ4's experience, so it looks like I better go the cheaper route of fixing the pickups for now.

 

Is it easy/cheap to add pickups to any wheels that don't have them? It's interesting if the frog IS lifting a wheel because my 0-4-0 runs pretty much perfect over it.

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I was also of the understanding that the stay alive unit supplied with the DCC Concepts decoder would do as you wish.

However, it did not make any difference whatsoever to my loco ...

 

I had exactly the same experience with this 'stay alive'.

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  • 8 months later...

I had an ESU "stay alive" fitted to my Hornby 0-6-0 tank by Olivia's Trains and am very pleased with the result. It never stalls over points or the odd couple of places where my other 0-6-0s struggle (I'm thinking of having another given this treatment despite the cost as it makes such a difference).

 

They fitted a 'Loksound 4 Decoder' as part of the process and the only problem I have now is when the loco is brought to a halt, it stops then briefly lunges forward again. Any thoughts on this please? Anything I can try changing in the decoder settings?

 

Thanks

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First thing I'd be doing would be disconnecting the stay alive to see if this changes the behaviour.  

 

There is also a quite complex relationship between sound and movement in a sound decoder in order to synchronise the two.  I think I'd start by asking Olivia's to see if they have any thoughts given they set it up for you in the first place.

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Thanks. Although Railmaster reports the decoder as "Lock Sound 4" I don't have sound fitted. I think they used it to work with the stay alive device.

 

I did ask Olivia's and they just suggested resetting the decoder, but am loath to do that as I think they had tested and set up the loco and settings are not the default ones. I don't know. I suppose I could note all the settings, reset it and, if it's a disaster, rewrite the original values.

 

Me and wiring inside a loco do not mix so no way am I going in and disconnecting the stay alive. Sorry!!

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Who do you mean by"they" used it working with the decoder.  And sounds a bit strange it reporting itself to be a Loksound if it's not. 

 

So definitely do a reset, then see how it goes and what it now reports itself to be. Yes, take a note of the settings but I wouldn't be too worried about losing them as they clearly aren't working well. 

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